Bosun Lawal M Stoke b.2003

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Yesterday was a start for Lawal, let's see if he can build on it, it's up to him to show he's good enough

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A start would have been a start. What that was yesterday was a complete waste of time.

As for the whole "none of the players we let go ever go on to anything" argument, any player they let go has to undo the damage of however many years proper first team development they've lost at Celtic first in order to do anything. Obviously not every player that goes to Celtic is going to make it (and the best young Irish players have thankfully steered well clear of the place), but Connell is having to steadily undo three years worth of damage to his development at Barnsley this season, and fair play to him for what he's doing. Because Celtic just sent him off to the Scottish lower leagues and forgot about him once they realised he wasn't instantly ready to play in their first team. Who knows where he'd be if he had spent those years in the Championship or League 1 in England, playing at a level appropriate to his ability instead of playing against part time players in mud covered hellholes around Scotland.

I actually laughed this weekend when it was noted in an article I read that Celtic were one of the clubs in for Evan Ferguson back when he left Bohs. Can you imagine if he had gone there, he'd now likely be a big 18 year old lad dominating the Lowland League, having probably not been improved at all technically from when he left Ireland, hoping he might be granted a few minutes with the first team in a dead rubber game before the season is out - if he's lucky.

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

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Originally Posted by John83

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

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With the best will in the world John, given that Lawal is literally a Celtic youth development player, wanting everyone to discuss one without the other is setting a hell of a bar for posting in this thread.

But fine, I'll have a go. Here's my prediction of how things will go at Celtic from here for Lawal - who was identified by Troy Deeney a couple of years ago as the biggest youth talent in the entire Watford setup at that time. He'll leave Celtic in the next couple of years, having played little first team football in Scotland. He'll sign for a lower league team in England and go on from there to have a solid, if unspectacular, career - but sadly not reaching the heights it was originally forecast that he could reach.

Why does he fail to fulfil his potential? It will just remain a mystery I suppose. Just one of those things, football is all a bit of a lottery at the end of the day...

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Originally Posted by John83

Lads, knock off the Celtic youth development 'debate'. You've all made your points multiple times. Discuss Lawal or get off this thread.

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Yeah lads don’t you dare talk about the club this player plays for.

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Yeah lads don’t you dare talk about the club this player plays for.

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The last such discussion turned into pages of off topic fights that didn't mention the player at all. You want to talk about Celtic's youth development, make a thread.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

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Fair to say the class of 2002 have achieved a lot more in the last 12 months than those of 2003 are likely to in the next 12? For starters, Parrott made his debut in 2019 and the other two in 2021. You name Parrott as the star of the year which was probably fair at a point in time but the other two closed that gap considerably and have probably surpassed him by now. Difficult to know where along the curve the 2003 lads are that you name. Armstrong and Roughan have made more of an impact at senior level so far, albeit at different levels to the three you identify who are at bigger clubs. It's a funny group overall that 2003 group. I'm hard pressed to pick a certainty for multiple senior caps. Any ideas?

Not sure if this is allowed(!) but Postecoglou is a new element to the Celtic discussion. He's only there 18 months. He was at least decisive when it came to Connell and the fact that he has Lawal close to the first team seems to me to be a telling indication that Postecoglou believes there's something to see here. They appear to be releasing a young Danish guy who only arrived 6 months ago or so. The SPL is a mistake-free zone for the top two and managers can't be taking chances on younger players too often.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Regarding Lawal, 2003 is a bit of an unusual year. Normally, there’s one player who is considered the star of the year from about u15/u16/u17 upwards:

1998 - Kelleher
1999 - Molumby (Rice initially)
2000 - Obafemi
2001 - Collins
2002 - Parrott
2003 - Any of a load of players
2004 - Ferguson
2005 - Zefi
2006 - Kone Doherty
2007 - Orazi

Obviously they don’t always pan out and often others come to the fore. But 2003, never had that one or two or three players who were streets above the rest. I think if you’d asked the 10 people with the most knowledge to pick their three most promising players, you’d probably have gotten 15-20 different names:

Genuinely over the past 5 years, at different moments, I’ve heard or seen people talk up:

Rose
A Doherty
Keeley
G O’Brien
Garcia McNulty
L Kavanagh
Lawal
Roughan
Adaramola
Henry Francis
McCormack
Moran
Finn
Caffrey
Ibrahim
Gilsenen
C Kavanagh
Harkin
Armstrong
Kenny

If I were guessing, Lawal is probably the third most hyped player after Moran and O’Neill - that’s generally an international quality player

1999 - Molumby, O’Shea, Travers
2000 - Obafemi, Connolly, Smallbone
2001 - Collins, Knight, Idah
2002 - Parrott, Bazunu, Omobamidele
2003 - Moran, O’Neill, Lawal

So maybe that’s where the bar is, if you look at the last name on each of those years, but like I said, 2003 is a strange year. Could see it being a really excellent one which produces loads of quality players or could see it being really barren

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I would say Moran is certainly the best prospect of the 03 group but I don’t think the gap is streets ahead let’s say. After Moran I think you could make a case for quite a few players. I also think Garcia McNulty is up there with Lawal & O’Neill, maybe Sinclair Armstrong also.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I would say Moran is certainly the best prospect of the 03 group but I don’t think the gap is streets ahead let’s say. After Moran I think you could make a case for quite a few players. I also think Garcia McNulty is up there with Lawal & O’Neill, maybe Sinclair Armstrong also.

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Keeley, Roughan, McNulty, O'Neill, Moran and Adaromala - anyone else from that cohort already been called up to 21s?

O'Neill is the one to have made the biggest impact at that level in the context of his goal against Sweden especially. He looks a serious prospect.

Again, interesting how none of them have made a senior impact (bar Roughan at League One and McNulty in Dutch second tier - Moran's sole appearance and Adaramola's uneventful loan stint discounted)?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The SPL is a mistake-free zone for the top two and managers can't be taking chances on younger players too often.

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Could that statement be flipped? - i.e. Celtic and Rangers are so dominant in the SPL that this gives them more opportunities than others to introduce younger players to their teams.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Could that statement be flipped? - i.e. Celtic and Rangers are so dominant in the SPL that this gives them more opportunities than others to introduce younger players to their teams.

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Not really, any mistake by either team basically gifts the league to the other, and with it Champions League qualification, and the money that comes with it.

Bar the Old Firm games, is it not one way traffic in games against the other SPL teams? And if it isn't, Celtic/ Rangers have underperformed? Celtic have a +52 goal difference after 22 league games, in their most recent league game against St Mirren, which they won 4-0, they had 76% possession etc etc - point being, they are clearly superior to the rest of SPL, they have room to make mistakes and still win games with ease. And I'm sure the current first team make mistakes as is.

I see your logic alright but the evidence is that every single game is taken very seriously and no risks are taken for the sake of blooding young players. While several games pan out like you say several others have required late goals to secure the points. Despite the imbalance in quality an off day by an OF team coupled with a bit of luck, a gutsy opposition performance and Scottish VAR (!) makes every game critical.

A lot of games are wrapped up by the hour mark though. If they made the effort they could be giving lads 30 minutes of decent football on a regular basis. The reason they don't is that youth development is an afterthought - they consistently pad their squad out with punts from around Europe and further afield and it's them that get those 30 minute run out instead.

Regarding the 2003 bunch I would have said Adaramola was the best prospect until things didn't work out for him on loan this season. Armstrong and Moran certainly pushing on more than him this year. O'Neill could kick on quickly with the right loan move but unlikely to get much of a chance at Fulham.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Not really, any mistake by either team basically gifts the league to the other, and with it Champions League qualification, and the money that comes with it.

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Top two both had Champions League this year though didn't they?

Second place in Scotland has to go through the Champions League third qualifying round, so not an automatic pass to the group stage.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Keeley, Roughan, McNulty, O'Neill, Moran and Adaromala - anyone else from that cohort already been called up to 21s?

O'Neill is the one to have made the biggest impact at that level in the context of his goal against Sweden especially. He looks a serious prospect.

Again, interesting how none of them have made a senior impact (bar Roughan at League One and McNulty in Dutch second tier - Moran's sole appearance and Adaramola's uneventful loan stint discounted)?

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Called up by the 21s: (excluding the weird double squad before Montenegro with a second LOI squad which probably contained guys like Jonny Kenny and Cian Kavanagh)

Rose
Keeley
Lawal
Garcia-McNulty
Roughan
Adaramola
Moran
O'Neill
Armstrong
Finn

It's quite a lot considering they would have been playing 3 years above the grade.

2002 by comparison is about the same despite them being a year older:

Bazunu*
Blair
Ebosele
Boyce
Omobamadele*
Hodge
Phillips
Parrott*
Okoflex
Costelloe
Odubeko

2004:
Ferguson*

I'm assuming he's eligible for someone else? And if so, who? Although he's represented us since U15 so probably wouldn't be an issue if it came down to it

Nigeria. Most players descent African for us their parents came over from Nigeria.