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It would be on merit because the manager would be picking the best players from our league, not different players every time.
The only reason I never attack Brian Kerr is because he is based in Ireland and when he was appointed I thought he would open the door for eircom League players to play internationally.
it wouldn't be onmerit because the manager wouldn't be able to neccessarily pick the best 25 players availableQuote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
There should be players in the squad on merit anyway, ruling or no ruling. Not the starting 11, but looking at some of the dross Kerr has selected in the squad time and time again who wouldn't be fit to lace the boots of the top players in the league.
Doyle was banned from selection for the squad when he was playing for Cork, but he will be automatically considered now that he has gone to play for Reading. Cork are a better side than Reading who play in a better league, ffs. :rolleyes: Likewise, Daryl Murphy. He couldn't play for Brian Kerr before, because he played for Waterford, but he can now that he has moved to Sunderland. You don't instantly become good enough to play international football because you crossed a stretch of water, it takes time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
We must be one of the very few countries where players are banned from representing their country if they play in their domestic league, or don't play their club football in the UK, regardless of their form, ability or availability. Apart from about 5 players, most of the Irish squad play for poor teams in England, gaining zero European experience with their clubs, of which several don't play in the top division. The one player who moved away from his English club was promptly banned from playing for the side for a year, described as "injured" for convenience.
Er, no. I agree with the tenor of your argument but you don't do yourself any favours with nonsense like this. Reading have been knocking on the door of the Premiership for the last three years now. A successful pre-season Intertoto campaign does not come into quite the same category. Were they to play in the English set-up, I don't think Cork City would even be in the same division. But that's another debate entirely...Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
:ball: PP
Irish squad recently containedQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
SHay Given, Andy O'Brien, Steve Carr, Roy Keane, Damien Duff, John O'Shea, Miller (tenuous, I know) and steve finnan - all 8 played euruopean football this year
while holland, cuningham, morrison, reid, rob keane, steve reid, ian harte, kevin kilbane richie dunne (9) are all in the prermiership where cork would be bottom of the table if they played there - moderate european experience included (even fc vaduz made it a roupnd or two last year)
Then we have paddy kenny, gra kavanagh, and steve elliot who are 3 of the top performers in the championship and should be in the prem one way or the other next year.
don'tget me wrong. I'm happy for cork. I hope they do well but doyle is a young inexperienced player who is on his second chance in england who realistically should be loooking to replace the likes of alan lee in the squad.
our first team is pretty good by a lot of standards and doyle is nowhere near it . I've just named 20 players who are there on merit before doyle.
next season we'l have the following in europe:
finnan, keane, o'shea, miller(fnarr), duff, kilbane, potter (perhaps) and if the right moves happen - rob keane and shay given while the vast majority of the first team squad will be in the epl.
blinkers off, reality hat on - doyle has some way to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Even the most staunch of City fans wouldn't agree with that. And how was he "banned" :confused:
Put simply, whether he's right or wrong, Kerr doesn't believe this league offers you a stern test. Move to a club at what he considers a decent level and you'll be considered. Surely though you don't think that Doyle will be considered until he is at least playing regularly for them, just because he's gone across the pond?? Because he won't....
I think by "banned" he means "excluded from consideration of selection into the senior squad by virtue of playing in the Eircom League", which is nonsense to be honest, all players are considered on merit before getting selected.
Pat Byrne came on as sub in Eoin Hands last game in charge, World Cup qualifyer v Denmark at Lansdowne Rd in 1985. He would be the last in a competitive game as far as I know.(We lost 4-1 btw)Quote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
first chance. doyle has never played in england before. As for the blinkers- if he wasn't good enough, I'd be the first to say so, but he isQuote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Yeah but I think it would be fair to say that if Reading were lined up against some of the quality that Cork and Shels faced last season in Europe I'd be straight down the bookies wagin' serious money on Reading getting spanked. Just a thought lads :o . And to be quite honest if either team, this is hypothetical now, were drawn against Reading (or a team in a similar position) in Europe both Cork and Shels would be pretty confident of progressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
Ehhhh... NO.Quote:
Yeah but I think it would be fair to say that if Reading were lined up against some of the quality that Cork and Shels faced last season in Europe I'd be straight down the bookies wagin' serious money on Reading getting spanked. Just a thought lads . And to be quite honest if either team, this is hypothetical now, were drawn against Reading (or a team in a similar position) in Europe both Cork and Shels would be pretty confident of progressing.
Big reality check here. Shelbourne just lost to Linfield, a part-time team from Belfast, in the Setanta cup final.
Any full time team in the English Championship (formerly known as Div 2) could comfortably expect to beat any team fromt he Eircom League.
Great answers to that age old question as to the last LOI player to play in a COMPETITIVE international match.
Pierce O Leary, Norn Iron, 1979
Pat Byrne, Denmark, 1985 (as sub).
Both are credible. Unitl now, I believed it was Mick Martin (before he moved from Bohemian FC to Manchester United).
Given, and Carr play for a poor side who finished 14th in the Premiership. Their former team-mate O'Brien has moved to a worse side, Portsmouth. Kenny Cunningham, and Clinton Morrison play for another bad side, Birmingham, as do Reid at Blackburn, and Kilbane at Everton. Holland plays for crappy Charlton, while Robbie Keane and Andy Reid play for persistent under-achievers, Spurs. Richard Dunne is a good player at a poor side, Manchester City. Miller can't get in the first team for the red-and-blacks. There's a reason for that, he's not good enough! Graham Kavanagh plays for Wigan, soon to struggle in the Premiership, while Paddy Kenny plays for the hackers of English football, Sheffield United. Gary Doherty, a mediocre utility player, can't get in a team who were recently relegated. Only Duff, Roy Keane, Finnan, and O'Shea, play for decent sides in the top division. McCarthy initially only took an interest in Morrison after he scored for Crystal Palace against Liverpool in a League Cup semi-final. Before then, it was a case of Clinton who?? :confused: Ian Harte left Leeds for Levante, but he can't play for BK as he's the poor unfortunate who plays his club football in Spain, out of sight, out of mind. He only plays when half the defenders in the team are suspended/unavailable.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
Sheffield United against West Ham in last year's FA Cup was the worst game I watched anywhere last season. Neither team had heard of the word "passing", and the ball was continously hoofed up into the air. The quality of football is atrocious in the English lower divisions. It's only interesting in the last few weeks, when you discover who will replace the relegated premiership teams next season.
Sides from the English lower divisions will come here for their pre-season friendlies. I don't expect them to win many games, as they'll come up against teams with players who are match-fit, full-time, many of whom are in a stable position at their clubs. The same can't be said of their opponents, many of which are clubs experiencing financial problems, with players who have uncertain futures. That won't make a difference to BK, who will select them for Ireland anyway regardless. Expect Doyle, and Murphy to be in the International squad in the next 12 months, no matter if they're doing well, or struggling to settle with their new clubs, solely because they play in England. :rolleyes:
that would be all well and good if it wasn't for there have been a number of soon to be internationals that left ireland and didn't become internationals - hawkins (failure at doncaster after being touted for ireland by pats fans), shaun maher at bournmouth etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
if they prove they are good enough (firstly) to get into the starting line-up of their clubs, and (secondly) that they can score against higher quality opponents then maybe they will have earned a call-up to the seior squad.
As yet, neither has done anything to earn a call-up
Both those players were definately at Rovers a the time they got capped.Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydownunder
Surely Mick Martin left Bohs in the late 60s early 70s.
Odd logic, a one off match, we've lost to some other sides who we'd consider ourselves better than in the last month or so...Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsydownunder
I'd fancy Shels chances against some of the bottom teams in that division, but Reading over two legs you'd expect to beat us.
I remember it alright. We finished the game with about five centre halves on the pitch. Moran, McCarthy, O'Leary, McGrath and Lawrenson. John Sivebaek scored FFS.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
Are you seriously suggesting overall thaht Premiership and Division One players are worse than eL players?! :eek: :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Name the last player to leave the eL for a decent British side and be in the Irish squad within twelve months? Clive Delaney? Damien Delaney? Noel Hunt, Gary Dempsey or Richie Byrne in the SPL? Michael Reddy managed it only after he'd broken into the Sunderland team for a short spell and scored a couple of goals, but that was only once.
You also didn't beat Portadown at home, another part-time team. Not to mention twice failing to beat Reykjavik, yet another part-time team... And UCD are part-time too! :p It may grate, but I think gypsydownunder has it exactly right...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/Ed
Reykjavik aren't part time afaik, and we beat them over two legs which is all that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
And indeed, we failed to beat UCD in two times of asking, does that make us worse than UCD? Answer that honestly now :p