A Political slant to the game on June 4th........

I think any sort of generalisations are dangerous, Comments like "All Irish are drunks" get people offended, so to tar all sort of political or environmental protest under the one brush is equally as offensive. I agree with political protest but just not inside a football match. I think it is very easy to throw around comments like tree huggers about people but hopefully you wont have to make a protest someday. Students, Nurses, Farmers etc all protest and all have the right to protest and to be honest I think that is a good thing, whether I agree with their view or not but the right to protest is part of any democracy.

Release the hounds!!

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Originally Posted by kerr's tribe

Fair enough, maybe I should not say tree-huggers, but what I meant was, these environmental TH, :D tend to latch on to any type of protest, it's like a day out for them, you know? Irish flag, not a Palestinian flag, it is an Ireland football game, :mad:

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I'm no tree-hugger, or anything like it, but I cannot abide genocide, ethnic-cleansing and murder. Thats why I would support this protest 100%

I have nothing against protests, but I don't like ones that are destructful and cause havoc. My main problem is those 'protesters' who are not genuinely there for the subject of the protest, just there cos they are rebellious and seem to get a thrill out of it.

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ethnic-cleansing and murder.

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there is two sides to every coin, and three sides to every story. remember one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, and to say that going into a pub and blowing up a (certain type )group of people isnt a form of ethnic-cleansing in itself is wholly wrong.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

Glad to see that someone has decided to organise some kind of protest. These Nazi scum shouldn't even be allowed into the country, never mind be allowed participate in world cup qualifiers. "ISRAEL" OUT :mad:

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get a bleedin' grip. You know all the Isreali team intimately to know they're nazi scum do you. Typical generalisation. So who the feck' is allowed into the country. By your way of thinking we wouldn't be allowed anywhere because we're all IRA scumbags..

Good luck to them. I was over at the way game, and found them to be great people, very friendly.

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My main problem is those 'protesters' who are not genuinely there for the subject of the protest, just there cos they are rebellious and seem to get a thrill out of it.

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on that point does anyone remember the may day protests in london around 200 or 2001, when one of the "protesters" throws a chair through a mcdonalds window and teh same protestor is wearing a *gap hoodie? LOL :D

was this a paradox or irony in its purest form?

gap who it costs 27p to make a top from child labour! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Éanna

I'm no tree-hugger, or anything like it, but I cannot abide genocide, ethnic-cleansing and murder. Thats why I would support this protest 100%

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Atrocities like that are unacceptable, always, and I don't want to drag up the whole Israeli-Palestinian issue on this thread, because politics and football should be kept separate on this forum and on 4th June inside the stadium.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

I'm no tree-hugger, or anything like it, but I cannot abide genocide, ethnic-cleansing and murder. Thats why I would support this protest 100%

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You can't abide murder but you're willing to take part in a protest waving palestinian flags.

By your generalizations all palestinians are suicide bombers, so whats the story?

If people want to protest do it away from the ground. By protesting within the ground you'd be dragging those who don't want to protest into the picture. Why not protest at the airport or ot the team hotel if you want to?

I want to go to the game, wear my colours, support my team and show respect for my opponents.

Protesting against the Israeli football team would be like protesting against the US or English football teams for their actions in Iraq - despite the fact that nearly 50% voted against Bush and the overwhelming majority of the British population was against the Iraqi invasion. My understanding is that there is a sizeable liberal / left movement in Israel who find the Israeli right's actions disgraceful too.

Will we protest against the French for the rise in the far right vote, the massacres of North Africans in the 60's, the unilateral destruction of parts of the Sth Pacific from nuclear testing etc.? There's barely a country in the world whose policies I don't find unpalatable in some respect but when I go to Lansdowne Road I go to watch my favourite football team.

I haven't heard one bad word said about the reception the Irish got in Israel & I don't see any reason why we shouldn't reciprocate.

I have strong political opinions but the only thing I give a sh1t about on June 4th is getting 3 points. I suggest those with other agendas stay away and let people whose priority is watching the game use their tickets.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!

The only Flag I'll be waving is an Irish one.

Stuttgart88 sums it up well, we only had the Chinese here six weeks ago, didn't hear much protest then, but then I guess the middle east is more 'fashionable' in protest circles these days :rolleyes:

Donal81 is spot on, this isn't a black and white issue, and ill informed people thinking about booing a national anthem does our country no favours at all.

If anyone outside the ground asks me to support it, they'll have to answer a few of MY questions first.

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Originally Posted by PaulB

get a bleedin' grip. You know all the Isreali team intimately to know they're nazi scum do you.

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I think his point is that the Israeli national team is - by definition, more or less - representing their country. When the national anthem plays, that represents the Israeli country and everything it stands for. When you stand and respect a country's anthem, you are standing and respecting everything that country stands for - in this case, terrorism, continual wilful ignorance of UN conventions, denying the Palestinians their right to their own land, etc. You can't just take the Israeli national team as being 11 people on a pitch. Tom Humphries' article (and I can't believe I'm about to type this...!) actually makes this pint very well.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Protesting against the Israeli football team would be like protesting against the US or English football teams for their actions in Iraq - despite the fact that nearly 50% voted against Bush and the overwhelming majority of the British population was against the Iraqi invasion.

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Again, you're not protesting against the football team - have to make that distinction clear. You're protesting against the country, which is why I mentioned earlier that you'd only protest inside the ground at the national anthem, being the most tangible symbol of the country. As regards your main point, I think if it's shown to Israel (and its leaders, more importantly, who are making the decisions) wherever Israel travel that their actions are derided by everyone in the world, then there's... - well, more of a chance of something changing than if we do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Will we protest against the French for the rise in the far right vote, the massacres of North Africans in the 60's, the unilateral destruction of parts of the Sth Pacific from nuclear testing etc.?

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a) No - that's democracy. What have they done as yet?
b) No - no point. You can't go back in time to protest at every little thing.
c) Yes - had we played them around the time of the event.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I haven't heard one bad word said about the reception the Irish got in Israel & I don't see any reason why we shouldn't reciprocate.

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Because we don't invade other countries' land, blowing up their protestors and ignoring UN mandates to stop?


I think (will try and find somewhere which backs this up) that in South Africa, the international ban from all sports was one of the more important aspects which ultimately resulted in the fall of Apartheid. Obviously, there was political pressure, protests in their own land, etc. as well, but the sports ban has been acknowledged. That's UEFA's or FIFA's remit, obviously, but failing that...

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Originally Posted by tiktok

If anyone outside the ground asks me to support it, they'll have to answer a few of MY questions first.

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Out of curiosity, what questions would they be?

The guys on the football team are just that. They are football players, not politicians or suicide bombers. And if the Palestinians on the Israeli team are so harshly treated as the original article suggested, then why do they bother. Did Abas Soan take off his jersey to reveal a "Free Palestine" tee shirt after he scored against us? And did he not appear to be quite joyous when he scored?

By protesting the Israeli Team, you will also be protesting against the palestinians who also play. And what will they make of that? It would be like protesting against the American team for the war in Iraq when you don't even know the views of the players on that subject.

When the US played in Panama last year in World Cup qualifying, there were plenty of banners such as "Osama is Here", and "Viva Osama", and "9/11 Dos". Smart stuff. Finished 1-1 but it didnt stop the Americans winning 6-0 in the return leg.

The Israeli team represent their country. They don't represent their government or its policies.I have no problem with people protesting against Israeli government action/policies. People have the opportunity to do this every day outside the Israeli embassy if they really want to.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Out of curiosity, what questions would they be?

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They may well be very simplistic but I'd ask them.....

How do you feel about suicide bombers deliberately targeting Israeli civilians?

Dop you think that the Palestinian leadership, especially under Yasser Arafat did enough to engage the Israeli's in discussions to end the conflict?

I read everyday about how impoverished the Palestinian peoples are, yet it's now clear that those in power possess huige sums of wealth, and there seems to be a constant supply of expensive weaponry, can you honestly say that the Palestinian leadership are 'victims'?

Have you ever asked an Israeli man or woman how they feel about the policies their government adopt?

Did you know that there are Arabs sitting in the Knesset?

Have you ever thought about how it feels to live under the threat of suicide bombings?

and my final Q...

Since you really want to mix sports and politics, can we discuss Yasser Arafat sending terrorists to the olympics to murder Israeli athletes?

Stu, I'm no fan of Israel, both sides need to make concessions. I remember reading a statistic that 7 palestinians die for every Israeli death. However, you can't judge this conflict it in those terms. It's not black and white.

I'm just really really opposed to bruinging this into football!

Stu - what if I had said "protesting in the presence of the Israeli football team" instead of "protesting at" them? My point is still the same: Israel is divided over the action it is taking in Palestine. The right-wingers hold the balance of power & determine policy, but it is by no means unanimously supported AFAIK.

I vehemently opposed the Iraqi war and I hate Bush, but I wouldn't boo or protest if the USA football team played in Dublin. The USA football team has never done much to offend me. Apart from jammy last-minute equalisers the Israeli football team hasn't either.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Out of curiosity, what questions would they be?

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Well if I was at the match I'd ask why a protest for Israel, but not for other recent teams with bad human rights records? (e.g. China, Croatia, Turkey, Georgia, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Russia etc) because at the end of the day, if you embark upon organising something large-scale like this you need to be consistent.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

If people want to protest do it away from the ground. By protesting within the ground you'd be dragging those who don't want to protest into the picture. Why not protest at the airport or ot the team hotel if you want to?

I want to go to the game, wear my colours, support my team and show respect for my opponents.

Protesting against the Israeli football team would be like protesting against the US or English football teams for their actions in Iraq - despite the fact that nearly 50% voted against Bush and the overwhelming majority of the British population was against the Iraqi invasion. My understanding is that there is a sizeable liberal / left movement in Israel who find the Israeli right's actions disgraceful too.

Will we protest against the French for the rise in the far right vote, the massacres of North Africans in the 60's, the unilateral destruction of parts of the Sth Pacific from nuclear testing etc.? There's barely a country in the world whose policies I don't find unpalatable in some respect but when I go to Lansdowne Road I go to watch my favourite football team.

I haven't heard one bad word said about the reception the Irish got in Israel & I don't see any reason why we shouldn't reciprocate.

I have strong political opinions but the only thing I give a sh1t about on June 4th is getting 3 points. I suggest those with other agendas stay away and let people whose priority is watching the game use their tickets.

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Well said that man.