Dave Hannigan's article today.

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Originally Posted by patsh

Bullsh*t Eanna.
I didn't attach any stigma to rugby, it has an elitist exclusionary policy, pretty much in the same way that golf clubs do. It's not written down anywhere, it's a nod and a wink, did you go to the right school attitude.

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Ballax Patsh. If you turned-up to a rugby club, said you'd never played rugby before but were interested in learning and playing the game, they'd take you in (unless of course you looked like you'd physically struggle). You'd get lumped in with the 4ths for training to see how you handled it, but they'd still give you a shot. If you don't believe me - try it. Don't approach one of the really big clubs (that would be like trying to approach Man U for a kickabout) - try one of your smaller local teams. Then compare the reception you'd receive with that you'd get if you turned up at a small soccer team in this country, looking to play for the first time. You'd be laughed outta town....

The biggest exclusionary element in the game of rugby is the blinkered old-fashioned attitudes of people like yourself who, by spreading half-arsed tales like this, are helping to create and perpetuate a self-fulfilling exclusionary myth.

Again, if you don't believe me - approach your local club and present yourself as someone keen to get involved....

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Ballax Patsh. If you turned-up to a rugby club, said you'd never played rugby before but were interested in learning and playing the game, they'd take you in (unless of course you looked like you'd physically struggle). You'd get lumped in with the 4ths for training to see how you handled it, but they'd still give you a shot. If you don't believe me - try it. Don't approach one of the really big clubs (that would be like trying to approach Man U for a kickabout) - try one of your smaller local teams. Then compare the reception you'd receive with that you'd get if you turned up at a small soccer team in this country, looking to play for the first time. You'd be laughed outta town....

The biggest exclusionary element in the game of rugby is the blinkered old-fashioned attitudes of people like yourself who, by spreading half-arsed tales like this, are helping to create and perpetuate a self-fulfilling exclusionary myth.

Again, if you don't believe me - approach your local club and present yourself as someone keen to get involved....

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Spot on, its obvious this fool has no idea what he's talking about but he's heard stories you know :rolleyes:

Actually was my school a particular bunch of knobs or is there anyone else here who went to a Dublin rugby school who found other sports were tossed to the wayside and there was an almost militant obsession with the Leinster Junior and more particularly Senior Cups? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Actually was my school a particular bunch of knobs or is there anyone else here who went to a Dublin rugby school who found other sports were tossed to the wayside and there was an almost militant obsession with the Leinster Junior and more particularly Senior Cups? :confused:

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I went to a rugby school in Leinster and there was definately a lot more obsession with the rugby teams when it came to the junior and senior cups.

I was more interested in the hurling and we were probably equally as succesful with our hurling team but we didnt get the same recognition. Plus some our best players were sometimes distracted by the glamour of the rugby team.

I think I was lucky I didnt go to a school in Dublin(thank god) and we were able to play most sports. We didnt have a soccer team, but we had soccer leagues near the end of the year.

Most Schools can only compete properly with a 1 or 2 sports.

Schools like Blackrock and others however have huge numbers and should allow all sports IMO.

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Originally Posted by Soko

Time to get over yourself there, times have moved on. Any names for those so called rugby schools that dont allow soccer in?

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It's got nothing to do with times moving on - that's a cop out. We're talking recent history here and you know the old saying about people who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. I heard a Principal on RTE Radio a year or so ago of a Cork rugby school stating for traditional reasons. they had no place for competing sports - think it was one of the schools involved in the recent Munster Schools comp. or some school like that, you'd know the name better than I would. Garbally College, literally behind my back door, annually refuses to enter Connacht FAI Schools competitions despite constant requests from parents and students. I could name dozens more so it's BS to waffle about getting over anything, with all due respect!
Blackrock regularly play in schools soccer and won the Tony O'Neill Cup last year against St. McCartans, Monaghan in Belfield - that's a reply to other posts, not you Soko.
Look, I state again, that there is room for all the major field games in post Primary schools. My bone of contention is that NO sport, including soccer, has a divine right to be first in the school pecking order, especially when teachers use their pull and influence to make this type of decision on behalf of pupils. Self indulgence, whether it's RTE Donnybrook or schools leads to elitism and that, as far as I am concerned, is racism-lite.
As regards to getting over it, tell that to the Melbourne/Canadian taxpayers who, I believe, are still paying off the bill for Montreal. Running the Olympics is a loss making affair, usually, and having mass withdrawals of countries only makes the financial situation much worse.
Patsh is a brave man to make his point. Wrong is wrong is wrong. We football fans have no problem crucifying our game if there are **** ups in the various areas of football but rugby fans seem very sensitive to any criticism - not surprising given the soft ride/self-indulgence the game gets in the media and in schools.
In my own case, ok wer'e talking early 70s here, I was threatened with expulsion if I didn't play rugby in Garbally but I stuck to my guns and eventually got the priest who made the threat to take an interest in soccer and he eventually became President of the local soccer club, believe it or not!!!
Nothing against rugby, honestly, but elitism and self-indulgence yes.
Cheers. Sir H.

Oh, by the way lads, if your'e going to call Patsh a fool, do a Gerry Adams when he "meets" the IRA and look in the mirror. That's the last time I'll name call, promise!! :D : :D

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Originally Posted by patsh

€19 million is a pittance to contribute to an organisation that has provided a playing ground, social centre and youth club to virtually EVERY parish in this country.
The most important fact of all is that THE GAA ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE INCOMPETENCE OF THE FAI.

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Didn't the GAA get another huge wad recently no questions asked ? Your 2nd point is bang on, my take is that fair play to the GAA its their hard work, its their stadium and it galls me to think of the level of incompetance in hte FAI but its a fact of life and we must live with it.

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Originally Posted by patsh

They might not have it actually written down somewhere, but this is the most elitist, class-based, exclusionary organisation in the world possibly.

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Pat I'm no fan of Rugby but I do think the Rugby situation is changing. There are more and more young fellas out there playing Rugby that would have had no exposure to it in school. My 18 year old cousin recently captained Munster U18, he goes to a non rugby playing school and ain't from an upper crust area or family (In fact we don't even like to talk about the fact he plays rugby ;) ) and while the Rugger Bugger phenomenon still exists and annoy me as much as anybody, times are changing.

Becuse of the prejudices towards “soccer” in the 40s and 50s by schools and the church, it meant the sport was only played by a small number of people, usually in the inner cities of Dublin and Cork. This deprived the game of many many people who might have become involved. Watched Bill Cullen on the Late Late on Friday, he said he was expelled from school aged 13, because his picture appeared in the paper with Home Farm. Incredible when you think of it. Liam Brady suffered the same fate when he refused to play GAA and turned out for St Kevins in the early 70s. Thankfully the country has moved on from those dark days. The FAI are a badly run organisation. Football should be organised similar to the GAA. One club per parish. Until this is done, football will remain the poor relations. The other sports have had a head start on football as regards facilities. This is slowly being rectified, especially in country areas like Mullingar Athletic and Town, Edenderry, Parkvilla and many many more throughout the country.

I went to a rugby playing school and played when I was younger (I was a fat little kid so there was little room for me in soccer, GAA or athletics). Some of my old classmates now are involved in setting up the new club in Tallaght, which the IRFU have invested a lot of effort in. It's my opinion that the majority of rugby players are still coming from middle class backgrounds but that this is not as a result of any 'nod and wink' policy. The IRFU are putting a lot of effort into changing the make up of the union by bringing coaches to less traditional areas and by introducing Tag Rugby which can be played more casually than proper rugby.

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Originally Posted by sirhamish

It's got nothing to do with times moving on - that's a cop out. We're talking recent history here and you know the old saying about people who refuse to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. I heard a Principal on RTE Radio a year or so ago of a Cork rugby school stating for traditional reasons. they had no place for competing sports - think it was one of the schools involved in the recent Munster Schools comp. or some school like that, you'd know the name better than I would.

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Lads would ye stop making things up please. I went to one of the afformentioned schools and you could play whatever the #### you wanted to play, soccer, GAA, tennis, golf etc... and it was the same in the other. Now there could only be 2 schools that you're reffering to so make of that what you want to.

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Originally Posted by patsh

A couple of facts here.
"but millions upon millions of tax-payers money was handed over, no questions asked, to the organisation."
COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY UNTRUE.
In total, €19 million of "taxpayers money" has been "handed over" to the GAA.

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is €19m not millions upon millions, which would make the original quote completely and totally true.

(sorry for being a bit petty!)

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Originally Posted by sirhamish

Blackrock regularly play in schools soccer and won the Tony O'Neill Cup last year against St. McCartans, Monaghan in Belfield - that's a reply to other posts, not you Soko.

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Unfortunately, it was not my Alma Mater (St Macartan's) that Blackrock defeated in that final but rather St Patrick's Cavan.

Gaelic football has always been the number one sport in St Macartan's which is fair enough I suppose (except that according one particular priest of the gaa zealot type it is written into the constitution of the school), but when I was there the soccer team were treated like second-class citizens. I think things have improved since.

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Originally Posted by monutdfc

Unfortunately, it was not my Alma Mater (St Macartan's) that Blackrock defeated in that final but rather St Patrick's Cavan.

Gaelic football has always been the number one sport in St Macartan's which is fair enough I suppose (except that according one particular priest of the gaa zealot type it is written into the constitution of the school), but when I was there the soccer team were treated like second-class citizens. I think things have improved since.

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Apologies - it was St. Patricks not St.McCartans - I really will have to stop posting at all ours of the morning. I was at quite a few St.McCartans games and their attitude to all sports was top class. Things have changed. Fair play.
Soko, stop the nonsense about making things up - Garbally, Clongowes etc have soccer pitches and kids can play there BUT my point was do these schools enter FAI Schools competitions and do they bring in coaches etc to coach the students interested in football. Any school can toss up a couple of acres for a kickabout but DID YOU get the opportunity to represent your Cork school in the various Munster Cups and had you a teacher willing to enter teams in the competitions. If so, what happened?
Look Soko, forgive me me if I sound a patronising bsatard, I respect your points of view but I still think I'm right on this one. Let me tell you a little sceal. I captained the Garbally school team against St. Mary's of Galway in 1972 after we fought like fcuk to get a team in to Connacht football. (It lasted one more year after that and the rugby boys killed it). Stephen, a teammate of mine, recalled that recently and said it was one of the proudest days of his life that he could represent his school playing the game he loves. Do you see where I'm coming from? Would not YOU have liked to be able to say the same thing?
I agree with the other posts, rugby IS making great efforts to expand the game from its base. Why? The game will die otherwise. I fully support this, by the way but I DON'T support exclusivity, self indulgence and elitism in sport.
Cheers, man. Sir H. :)

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Originally Posted by sirhamish

To be utterly fair, I'm still outraged over the Irish Soccer team playing Chile (included one Mr. Dunphy) straight after the murder of Allende by CIA

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You must have been in rages during USA '94 so?

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Originally Posted by Soko

Spot on, its obvious this fool has no idea what he's talking about but he's heard stories you know :rolleyes:

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Ah the typical reply from the rugger bugger, a little abuse and then the superior attitude to think you know something about me. One must never denigrate the guys, must one?...:p

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Originally Posted by ColinR

is €19m not millions upon millions, which would make the original quote completely and totally true.

(sorry for being a bit petty!)

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You are not being petty, just intensely pedantic.....;)

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Ballax Patsh. ....

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Ballax back to you.
I have recent (3 months ago) close experience of snobbery and elitism from rugger buggers, based entirely on birthplace, school and social class.
I don't give a flying f*ck for rugger boys attitudes and opinions on this forum or anywhere else, so I couldn't care less about the attempts at abuse, but I know from certain, experienced at first hand, events what attitudes did exist and are still extant to this day.
I repeat, it is SICKENING to think of no-necked, privileged gurriers being allowed to use Croke Park.
Actually when they are eventually allowed in, maybe the Revenue Commisioners could arrest the entire attendance, I'm pretty sure they would find a lot of tax-cheats, slave labour employers and general low-life thieves masquerading as the "great and good" of this country.

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

Becuse of the prejudices towards “soccer” in the 40s and 50s by schools and the church, it meant the sport was only played by a small number of people, usually in the inner cities of Dublin and Cork. This deprived the game of many many people who might have become involved. Watched Bill Cullen on the Late Late on Friday, he said he was expelled from school aged 13, because his picture appeared in the paper with Home Farm. Incredible when you think of it. Liam Brady suffered the same fate when he refused to play GAA and turned out for St Kevins in the early 70s. Thankfully the country has moved on from those dark days. The FAI are a badly run organisation. Football should be organised similar to the GAA. One club per parish. Until this is done, football will remain the poor relations. The other sports have had a head start on football as regards facilities. This is slowly being rectified, especially in country areas like Mullingar Athletic and Town, Edenderry, Parkvilla and many many more throughout the country.

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Dead on Drummerboy, but I would state that the improving of facilities is going at a phenomenal rate. Mullingar Athletic's Gainstown ground is sensational. I remember an Ennis teavher in 2000 arriving for Primary Finals ans saying "FCUK it, we have nothing like this!!!" Some places still have some catching up to do, obviously. Regards Parkvilla, if your'e up in Navan, check out the Meath & District League grounds on the Trim road - amazing. Another town I know in that league, Kingscourt, recently announced a six figure ground development scheme - this club didn't exist a few years ago!! Amazing!
I'll take a break for a while, lads, as I've just seen the muppet elected a Pope and I'm thoroughly depressed. And we criticise the FAI for who they select as their top man? Jeez. :eek: :( :mad:

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Originally Posted by Troy.McClure

You must have been in rages during USA '94 so?

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:D :D Nah, Slick Willy was in charge then!!! On second thoughts.......... :eek:

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Originally Posted by sirhamish

Apologies - it was St. Patricks not St.McCartans - I really will have to stop posting at all ours of the morning. I was at quite a few St.McCartans games and their attitude to all sports was top class. Things have changed. Fair play.
Soko, stop the nonsense about making things up - Garbally, Clongowes etc have soccer pitches and kids can play there BUT my point was do these schools enter FAI Schools competitions and do they bring in coaches etc to coach the students interested in football. Any school can toss up a couple of acres for a kickabout but DID YOU get the opportunity to represent your Cork school in the various Munster Cups and had you a teacher willing to enter teams in the competitions. If so, what happened?
Look Soko, forgive me me if I sound a patronising bsatard, I respect your points of view but I still think I'm right on this one. Let me tell you a little sceal. I captained the Garbally school team against St. Mary's of Galway in 1972 after we fought like fcuk to get a team in to Connacht football. (It lasted one more year after that and the rugby boys killed it). Stephen, a teammate of mine, recalled that recently and said it was one of the proudest days of his life that he could represent his school playing the game he loves. Do you see where I'm coming from? Would not YOU have liked to be able to say the same thing?
I agree with the other posts, rugby IS making great efforts to expand the game from its base. Why? The game will die otherwise. I fully support this, by the way but I DON'T support exclusivity, self indulgence and elitism in sport.
Cheers, man. Sir H. :)

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Our school did play in Munster cups etc... and weren't that bad actually. We had a huge mix of GAA, soccer and rugby players in our school but it just so happens that rugby is by far the highest profile sport played there. People didn't complain about having to play in second rate GAA competitions because thats not where we were strong. Are you going to give out about Colmans etc... not expanding in to rugby fields? I know Newbridge have practically abandoned rugby and become predominantly GAA orientated so good luck to them.


Once again though, who were you talking about in Cork as I know this one for fact and you seem to have given up this point altogether. People like Patsh have completly ignored me too......... bar Cork Con name where the elitist clubs in Cork. You cant because you're full of ####.