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Our destiny is in our own hands. If we win the 5 games we have left (France, Switzerland, Israel at home and Cyprus & Faroe Islands away) we'll top the group and qualify automatically. Then again, the same is true of France, Switzerland, and Israel.. but they all have to come to Lansdowne Rd.
As it stands now Ireland (+5), France (+4), Israel (+2) (in that order on goal dif.) top the group, with Switzerland (+6) 3 points adrift and a game in hand.
onenilgameover my arse....
I think tactically we we're shown to be very poor tonight....and that has to come down to the decisions of Kerr not to go with Reid and not to change things at half time when things were obviously not right. How many free kicks did we take in the israeli half that went backwards and did Roy Keane play a ball forward at any time during the match? Totally disappointed with the attitude to sit back and try to scrape a victory we did not deserve. If we do not get to Germany it will be because of tonight. Gutted!
I must admit I'm kind of glad that Roy Keane is out for the next game- he set the tone tonight- he stopped us playing. He rarely loses the ball and has a controlling influence but we should have created chances on the counter attack in the second half and we couldn't, not just because of Roy, but he in particular looked like he was saving his energy for the club games. I think a game out might give him a chance to reassess his contribution.
Remember Rui Costa being dropped from the Portugese team- a player of undoubted ability but one that slows the game down to a snail's pace. And at least he's creative. Keane just looks for the easy ball at all times, never beats a man, never hits it long, never even looked forward tonight for all I could see. If only we had an offensive central midfielder to play alongside him. Could Reid play in the centre?
It's just a pity all our other central midfielders are virtually the same.
Carr being out forces Finnan to take the full back role- which he should have taken tonight- Carr was caught out of position too many times, Finnan never took his man on, never took the game to the Israelis. Stick Reid in there, may be even Elliot, he's young, he has the hunger.
Who knows, maybe Stephen Kelly might be worth a look in at right-half, or Stephen Reid might rediscover his form of early 2002 in the closing months of this season. It seems you have to be called Stephen to be right-sided player in Ireland.
I was ****ed off at this match, it was like Croatia, Yugoslavia and Macedonia away all over again. I thought that kind of shaite was banned to the past forever. Why do we play so bad when we play away? Hopefully this match will be a good kick up the arse for the players. The good news is that we're top of the group and the only away matches we have left are the Faroes and Cyprus. I hope France win in Israel by a good margin, because we need a) the Israelis to become demoralised and b) the current incompetent French manager to hang on in there at all costs. The last thing we need is a rejuvenated France coming to Lansdowne under a new manager.
Roy Keane anno 2005 is a decent holding midfielder but we need a box to box guy (Roy Keane anno 2001) next to him to do the running. Kilbane isn't up to it, he tries but he just doesn't have the skill or the tactical knowledge. It really is a pity Tim Cahill isn't Irish. The team could have done with his energy and attacking nous on the pitch.
How France didn't beat the Swiss I'll never know, but the important thing is our destiny is still in our own hands. Holland will come in for Keane in the next game, Finnan will go right full and Reid/Duff will be right wing, probably swap wings all through the game too. Too tired/drunk/p!ssed off to comment on the outcome of that game, what I will say is I think a draw or an Israeli win on wednesday is the best we can hope for.
But what's bothering me more than anything is the amount of people in the pub who were calling for Kerr to quit! I was told to boo Brian Kerr at the China game on tuesday - which I have no intention of doing.
I certainly wouldn't boo Kerr but I think the honeymoon is over. He left on Morrisson for far too long. Had McCarthy done that we would have been screaming blue murder. Moreover, he didn't try and go for the juggular when we could have won the game. Choosing Finnan was also set the tone of the match: Negative.
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED. the whole game looks like it was in slow motion. they got the the edge of the box. stopped and passed their way all the way back to Given. They silenced the crowd after 3 minutes and fell got back on the plane for the last 87 minutes. Should be ashamed. We should be all but qualified this morning but they made a balls of it.
Gob****es
Fair play to the Israelis. They deserved more. Carbon copy of Switzerland.
Was at the game, thought Roy Keane played fairly well it was the people around him that were crap. Kilbane was back top his donkey days, Morrison apart from the goal did nothing, Robbie Keane did the usual I think its time to give Elliott a run.
And of Kerr :
1) did we take one decent free kick
2) Should have tried to kill the game at the end by putting on subs
At last some reasonable analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Condex
Keane had a good game in midfield, one or two misplaced passes early on, but after that he ensured we kept posession, got forward on occasion but generally held the middle of the park together. Booking was costly though and unnecessary. I thought Kilbane covered a lot of ground, played deeper than usual (probably at Kerrs request) he put in a lot of tackles.
Carr and Obrien were disappointing at the back. Carr was caught out of position on a number of occasions and needlessly gave the ball away far too many times (some times far too close to our own goal!). O'Brien took too many risks for my liking at the back and I was expecting him to get robbed at any time during the game leaving a one on one with Given.
Cunningham did what he had to. O'shea played ok, supported Duff quite well on the left, which was pretty much where all our forward play came from.
Finnan on the Right was solid enough just not involved as much as I would have liked.
Robbie held the ball up well and as usual always showed for the ball. Probably should have done better with the header, but didn't really get/create another chance all night after that.
Morrison did little after his excellent opener.
Set Pieces were absolutely SHOCKING. Not one free or corner caused any danger whatsoever. Considering this 2nd string keeper was going to be tested - someone forgot to tell the players or at least practice something beforehand. Even the little dink freekick in the first half was a half cocked attempt.
At 1-0 we had them rattled and we should have picked up a 2nd goal as quickly as possible. We had alot of controlled posession and the Israelis seemed to struggle to get the ball back. However, the longer the game went on, the more half chances they created, the more likely and equaliser was imminent.
Have we learned nothing from the likes of Macedonia away?
Gutted.
Hilarious some of the reactions here from the people who, like TurfPaddy, said in other posts they weren't worried about the result - that it was a dead cert. If you look at the predictions thread elsewhere we have a vast majority going for a win. In other threads we have people saying this is the new era - all this positive cr+p and talking about World Cup Semi Finals.
Fact: (a) we haven't won a major game away from home for 18 years!!
(b) our two main strikers aren't regulars starters in their Premiership sides.
(c) other than France away, the team's away competitive performances under Kerr have been poor (draw and loss away to Swiss, draw in Albania, scrape a win in Georgia)
(d) he picks negative sides (two full backs playing on the right and leaves ANdy Reid warming his ass on the bench).
(e) In midfield we have Kilbane who is losing form every day at Everton and a Keane in decline (but still a good player).
(f) in centre of defence we have O'Brien not getting his game at Newcastle and at full back O'Shea (also not getting his game at Man U and who finds it very difficult to pass to one of his own players).
Therefore it was unlikely we would win in Israel and for people to come on here and say it was rubbish amuses me - what did you expect based upon the standard of our players, the negative approach of the manager and past history ? I think that this was one of the most predictable performances imaginable for those who have followed Irish football for a long time - especially the last minute equaliser :mad:
We have got draws in all our 3 away matches so that's ok. But for Clint's magical strike we might be coming home with nothing.
Qualification is in our hands but it will be a very hard battle. Our competitive record at home under Kerr isn't great either (Russia draw, Faroes 2-0 !! and Cyprus 3 or 4 -0).
And for those who like to have a dig at Mick Mc over his comments on the 2-2 in Holland, anyone hear Kerr saying that while he was disappointed with the late equaliser, he was satisfied with a point. Plus ca change.
It's crazy to suggest a French win would have been best. :mad: Luckily we're still well placed but what a chance missed to take this group by the balls. At least Israel will still be fighting like mad on Wednesday now too I suppose. Some very small consolation.
I actually thought RMK was good last night. Kilbane, who's had a great 12 months, was just not up to it in CM. Time for a rethink here. Keane anchored well but we needed some guile and creativity instead of a worker who was way off his game.
In general there were a few non-performers: Carr & Kilbane stood out for me as the biggest flops (actually wasn't it the same in Basle too?). Both the forwards were largely anonymous though I think that was probably more a function of our lack of penetration from midfield. But the biggest non-performance of all was from the bench - how on earth were Kerr & Hughton happy to leave things unchanged for so long?
Set pieces were an utter shambles.
Now the booze has worn off and some of the anger has subsided I still see things the same way: that was a narrow pitch which made it easier for them to handle Duff. If we'd had Reid on the pitch they'd have had somebody else to think about. Personally I'd have made 2 changes at half-time: another central midfielder in place of KK - Kav would have been my choice.
Also Reid for Morrisson and changing the shape to 4-5-1, or 4-4-1-1, NOT the defensive move it appears on paper. We'd have had Duff & Reid as attacking threats AND a more solid look to midfield.
Whether this is right or not is one thing. The real issue is that something needed to be done & it wasn't. Kerr really failed in his job last night because Israel were nowhere near as good as many of us thought they'd be and tactically we had nothing up our sleeves to capitalise on this. I don't even blame Kerr for picking the same XI that played well in France but when it was obvious things weren't happening that's when the bench could have sealed the 3 points for us.
We should still be fully behind Kerr but at some stage we have to assume the moral courage to kill these games off.
Carr was muck. Gave the ball away too many times. O'Brien failed to get out quick enough to block the goal and committed the cardinal sin (IMO) of turning his back and jumping. Kilbane was anonymous and there was a complete lack of urgency going forward. The Israeli back four looked very poor under pressure and even when they weren't the made basic errors.
Crap.
That's another reason to bring Kav on - he's excellent at set pieces!Quote:
Good points Stutt. At the risk of getting shot here, we were always more of a danger at set-pieces when Harte was around. Just looking at O'Shea standing over a ball is enough to give me the willies.
The whole team was at fault here because we were standing with 11 men in the penalty box just asking the Israelis to have a crack. To single out O'Brien is a bit unfair.Quote:
O'Brien failed to get out quick enough to block the goal and committed the cardinal sin (IMO) of turning his back and jumping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Have to agree with that. kerr's after match comments where from the Ireland text book of old. He should have been totally livid at dropping those points against a very poor side except its the old mantra great if we win good if we draw...We will get nowhere with this attitude. It may be too close to comment after this shocking result but the Swiss look better to qualify in first place.
Swiss qualify first ? unlikely. I think its time we took an honest look at the games we played. We have all the hard work done and were in a better postion than most of the other teams. If France draw next Wednesday then I will be in good enough form.Quote:
It may be too close to comment after this shocking result but the Swiss look better to qualify in first place.
We know we nearly had the upper hand of both France and Israel and to a lesser extend Swtizerland. Were at home and all the players know what they have to do. Plus hopefully the players will be fitter then getting regular first team football.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
The Swiss looked like they were up for it last night which as they say in international football is half the battle. They are ****e at the back but the attitude is right I think if were not out of sight by the last game against them. They will put us under serious pressure and I'm not sure where good in situations like that. Sure we're the best friendly team around when there's no real pressure on yet when it comes to tuff games we seem to bottle it and those matches have been well documented here I'm not gonna drag up the past we just need to be wary of them the have their away draw in Isreal and France and have a better goal difference and have beaten us at home already in the last 4 years they only difference is we've played em away already I don't think its unlikely at all and we would be foolish to think that it would be
So too is Andy Reid (& McGeady for that matter though I wouldn't have had him on last night).Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
Maybe he was livid. I tend not to read much into the mumbo jumbo said in press conferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenilgameover
A wider & bigger pitch, home crowd and enforced personnel changes ought to see us put Israel straight back in Dublin. Finnan is our no. 1 right-full back in my mind. Carr's recent run of form at Newcastle hasn't translated into good form in green.
I don't see why people are knocking O'Brien. I thought he & Kenny did quite well last night.
Time for a rethink in certain areas:
Finnan over Carr
A genuine central midfielder to partner Keane going forward.
Offensive 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 (i.e., using both Duff & Reid to full effect) is an option but defensive 4-5-1 (i.e., replacing Morrison with Holland and leaving Finnan RHM) is not. Bearing this in mind I'd give this a dry run at some stage on Tuesday (with McGeady instead of Duff maybe). Kav & Holland to start CM in any event.
A draw on Wednesday and 6 points in June would still leave us in a nice position. I still think that when we have our best attacking talent on the pitch (Robbie, Duffer, Reid, Kav) we're a handful but the memory of a crap 1-1 at home to Russia & a fluky 2-1 win over Albania, as well as the realisation that we're tactically one-dimensional, has me feeling cautious.
The door to the dressing room was locked after the game, so it seems like he (or Keane, as Dunphy suggested! :p ) had someone up against the wall giving out hell. Which was about the only bit of good news all evening (until France drew again) as that preformance was shambolic. Whenever we got into the final third of the pitch, we stopped, let Israel regroup and then passed all the way back to Given. Keane (Roy) kept on passing level or back - never forward. If he's supposed to be dictating our play, he has to be more attack-minded than that surely? Finnan was poor - kept on going back. So much was made of the keeper being poor under crosses - and at the first corner, we put two men on him to try and unnerve him - but when we got the ball in wide positions, we never crossed! Same for frees! I can't see how the players unanimously decided to not to attack at all ever - Kerr has to take much of the blame for the team's mentality surely? We played well for five minutes - while at 0-0 and at 1-1. This has happened in the every game so far - we stopped playing against the Faroes and Cyprus at 2-0 up, and stopped at 1-0 up in Switzerland. WHY?!?!?!? :mad: :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Our next game is home to Israel - this was a perfect opportunity (along with the French visit on Wednesday) to end their qualification hopes before that game - instead, they're going to be more fired up than they need to be. Shocking stuff...
Another 60 seconds and maybe we'd all be saying it was a classic defensive performance away from home...That goal was meaningless in that there's nothing you can do about a strike like that, which came out of nowhere.
I don't think it was an overtly defensive performance in that we dominated possession and were in the Israeli half for most of the game. Where we really failed was on set-pieces; our free-kicks and corners were dismal.
I can't remember how many corners floated gently into the keeper's hands. How many free-kicks that went straight into a wall of players...
One of the things I remember being told on my first day as an under-8 player many years ago was that, when taking a corner, aim the ball for the penalty spot. The curl on the ball will leave it perched between the six yard box and the penalty spot. The keeper will either come for it and be exposed or stay there and allow you to have a go at it. Why did we forget this time and time again?
The result is a sickener but I don't think Kerr's tactics were that bad. What was woeful was the wasted possession and he has to take some responsibiity for that, as do our players.