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Again like many others I no friend of Israel but the Jews have had a claim on certain parts of that land longer that any say Celtic (Keltic now, not Seltic!) peoples have had a claim on Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Nothing excuses the shocking way the Israeli state has taken land from various countries and the way they've treated the Arabs. A state like Israel has every right to exist, the shocking acts their government commits often causes me to forget this.
Don't think anyone's trying to argue Israel doesn't have a right to exist. This was all set out in 1947 as to who would get what, and yet Israel's expansionist policies, together with the disgraceful complete and unconditional backing of the US are still ongoing to this day, and the Palestinians haven't gotten what's theirs by right. That's where the problem is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SÓC
I agree 100%. I was repsonding to Éanna's suggestion about the election. Israel should hold their own elections in their 1947 borders. Palestinians should have their own. Two seperate states. Can see how they'll ever sort the fact that they both claim the one city as their capitalQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Where is WAR?:D
Too busy trying to save the Republic of Rovers at the moment to bother about Israel. For the record though I agree with you - two state solution with Jerusalem under joint authority, or something like that. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SÓC
As for Irish people travelling there to watch a football match....let's just say that personally I couldn't bring myself to do it. But, as lots of you know, if ROI were playing in my back garden I'd close the curtains.
KOH
I'm not cherry-picking at all. The only reason I brought it up was that someone asked why Israel was in the European qualifying group and I answered it. If it had been China/Turkey/anyone else I would have done the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
As for saying sport and politics shouldn't be mixed- I think thats the greatest load of bullshít ever. Sport can be a positive way to build bridges (e.g. the Derry -v- Linfield game, Setanta Cup) but it should also be treated as a privilege which can be withdrawn from those undeserving of it. There was a quote from a member of the Franco government after Real Madrid won one of their 5 in a row European Cups, saying "football has done this country a great service" (or words to that effect). What he meant was, Spain was a pariah at the time, and nobody wanted anything to do with Spain, but Real Madrid's footballing excellence won acclaim across Europe and thus helped gain Spain acceptance by parts of the international community. Sport and politics are inextricably linked (why is Ireland -v- England a big game!!!!) and saying they are not is burying one's head in the sand. Accept this, and use it for good. To do anything else is crazy
Given the history one might assume the jews would have some respect or empathy for the rights of people who have been marginalised. How wrong!
Just like you'd expect the Irish to be the one nation in the world to empathise with immigrants. How doubly wrong ! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
israel should be treated likeapartheid south africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr's tribe
and ive personally no complaints with zimbabawe.ever since cecil rhodes conned an african tribal king the whites ie brits have plundered the country for themselves.just like many other countries. robert mugabe was elected in 1980/81 on the back of promises of land reform, ie retake the land from the white farmers who stole it in the first place.hes doing what he promised to do 25 yearsago,so dont act sur[prised by it. i do object to the ultra-violent manner in which hes doing it,but in principle hes right
Why should they? Israel doesn't pick its sporting sides purely on racial or religious grounds. Neither has it ever told a visiting side not to pick so-and-so on racial or religious grounds. That's what made South Africa a sporting outcast. What makes Israel different from (cue long list of c*ntish regimes one of whom we'll be playing three days after Tel Aviv) apart from being the enemy of one of Sinn Fein's buddies. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
Zimbabwe's run by a great bloke. Why? Because he's black and not white? What would you think if Bertie Aherne told Nelson Mandela to 'keep your black nose out of our country, if he made a comment about racism in Ireland.' Wouldn't you find that RACIST :eek: , even if Mandela thought it was not the worst thing that's either been said or done to him. Anyway, sure the people who are starving in Zim will be pleased to hear of your support for Uncle Bob.
BTW, I agree Israel should be kicked out of the competition but not for the hypocritically lame reasons you offer. I want them kicked out because they look like being a country that might f*ck up our qualifying chances. :p
Very unpopular position but true nonetheless. The Brits created Mugabe by sustaining Smith and his rotten regime in Rhodesia for so long. A fact they seem to have forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
Ask my 72-year-od aunt. She's a nun and spends 6 months a year in Zimbabwe and has zero sympathy for the white fasrmers. According to her they still act like they're living in Rhodesia and are a repellant bunch of unreconstructed racists.
Does this count as taking a thread off-topic? ;)
KOH
I have always been of the opinion that the land reclaiming, in theory at least, is right.But who is really suffering because of this, most of the land that is retaken isn't farmed and is left idle,theres queues for basic things like bread and a severe lack of petrol. I doubt any of the white farmers that haven't been murdered are starving, I also doubt that many Zanu PF people are starving. I stayed in Victoria Falls and Bulawayo(this doesn't mean I presume I've more knowledge of the situation than somebody who has never been there, I don't) for a couple of weeks a couple of years ago, and would agree that you still see that colonial superior attitude of the white people, and would have little sympathy for them but bottom line is it's not them suffering(obviously those that have been murdered and beaten excepted) because of the thug Mugabe. Two wrongs don't make a right. The only person Mugabe cares about is Mugabe.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
Agree 100% with your post. I was just saying that the situation was created by outside colonial forces and that I have zero sympathy for white ranchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Good Son
KOH
If there's a serviceable pitch in your back garden, how come Rovers haven't played there yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
BobbySands' post has been trashed here. People are trying to have a serious discussion here and for once it's progressing amicably. Any further attempts at trolling or flaming will result in an instant and permanent ban from Foot.ie.
BobbySands, I've been looking forward to deleting your account and posts since you were brought to my attention a couple weeks ago. I dare you to push me on this.
adam
It may be a bit harsh and sweeping but 'Rhodesians' are in my experience an arrogant bunch at the best of time. I remember one old man I met at work one morning, complaining about the way the country had gone (he was a 'policeman' there in 'the good old days'), then went on to complain about present-day Britain as well. Welcome to the 21st century? How's about living in the 20th century first. It is also - as a Zimbabwean I know who was a former CEO of the Zim Rugby Union, pointed out to me - around a dozen white farmers that have been killed in the country whereas the number in South Africa he reckons runs into thousands, although some of those killed bought farms after 1980.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
However it still doesn't excuse Bob. He's a racist and a despot - whatever his colour or what the Brits did (in their defence it was Smith declaring UDI that prolonged white rule in the country).
Fair enough WAR, i appreciate what you are saying, but i believe that Mugabe, like so many other African leaders are contributing to its problems by holding the country back. Unfortunately, like some of the other corrupt leaders and regimes, they are only interested in keeping Africa's wealth to themselves, while the people struggle. What is happening in Zimbabwe and Sudan is horrific. As usual, Africa is ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeAreRovers
For what its worth, I support the Israeli state and its right to exist.
However, the refusal of Israeli officials in the recent past to allow
members of the Palestinian national team leave the Gaza Strip was unacceptable and should have merited action from the appropriate
football authorities (points deduction).
I note that we had no problem playing Iran in Tehran, despite the fascist regime in place there and the fact that significant amounts of the Irish support were effectively deterred from travellling (women). Fair play to the small amount of "girls in green" who made the trip (less than 10).
The only times I would advocate action a sporting boycott is where there is evidence of institutionalized racism in a sporting body (South African rugby) or when there is evidence of direct interference by the government in sports organisations (Kazahstan ? Afghanistan ? Ireland :D )
Off now for a cup of tea and a Jaffa cake !
Touché!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
KOH
Thats a risky line to go down, did you support Edi Amin's purge of "non-natives" in Uganda ?Quote:
Originally Posted by anto eile
Personally I dont have a problem with Isreal playing in Europe as long as it is a temporary measure. Once the other arab countries allow Israel to play then Isreal has to be kicked out.
I dont see how their clubs should be allowed in the Champions league though. Thats way wrong