Identity is a sense of place not birthplace

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Originally Posted by Bluebeard

Funnily enough we voted last year to deny many people born in Ireland the right to Irish citizenship.

This is going to bite us on the arse in years to come when some young Romanian who started his career with St. Pats scores in a penalty shootout against us.

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Much as I despised that referendum - and I see your point - the legislation under the referendum hasn't been finalised yet. Hopefully, the Irish kid born in the Rotunda to Irish parents will be able to claim citizenship reasonably. The referendum only denied such people automatic citizenship upon birth, thank God. But as Humphries pointed out, this will soon be a country where the kid born and reared in Ireland wants to play for Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Czech Rep or Hungary. If things don't get more inclusive and, again as Humphries notes, if we don't understand a greater concept of 'Irishness' than what we have now, what you predict should most definitely happen.

There are thousands of kids in the US with Irish parents and grandparents but has even one ever declared for Ireland? No because he likes being Irish-American. But I think we're getting off the pont, sorry about the rant. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Donal81

the Irish kid born in the Rotunda to Irish parents will be able to claim citizenship reasonably

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Sorry, I obviously meant to parents from outside of Ireland.

Lopez,

Just two points

I know about Hungarys history. The reason there was such a low turnout was because people knew that the vote wasnt going the way of people who were in favour of granting hungarian citizenship to those born outside th country.
having been to Hungary a good few years ago they are without doubt the friendliest people in Europe. (And their women the most beautiful)

About Townsend and Houghton. Clearly there were some players who didnt consider themselves Irish but played for this country. They were only using the national team as a stepping stone to improve their own career not out of any feeling of loyalty.

As for a multi-cultural island - Im all for it!

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Originally Posted by Donal81

There are thousands of kids in the US with Irish parents and grandparents but has even one ever declared for Ireland? No because he likes being Irish-American. But I think we're getting off the pont, sorry about the rant. :rolleyes:

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There's a big difference between the US and Australia on one hand and Britain, France and Germany on the other. No one in the US is a native except those people in wigwams who smoke the peace pipe. Everyone has a prefix (or should have) and quite a good few of these Irish-Americans avail of Irish nationality.
[QUOTE=eoinh]The reason there was such a low turnout was because people knew that the vote wasnt going the way of people who were in favour of granting hungarian citizenship to those born outside th country.
Sounds a poor reason not to vote. Shame Bush's followers didn't think the same.

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Originally Posted by eoinh

About Townsend and Houghton. Clearly there were some players who didnt consider themselves Irish but played for this country. They were only using the national team as a stepping stone to improve their own career not out of any feeling of loyalty.

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In the case of Houghton there is evidence that he feels more Scottish than Irish but not that he doesn't feel Irish at all. As for the other two, you're right (although as I've said ad nauseum, they qualified legally). Townsend lost all my respect when as captain he persuaded the team to wear a black armband in honour of a recently deceased foreign nymphomaniac.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Townsend lost all my respect when as captain he persuaded the team to wear a black armband in honour of a recently deceased foreign nymphomaniac.

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Davros is........ dead! :eek:

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Originally Posted by davros

Huh?!Or do you mean in 'Dr.Who'?
Reports of,er,my demise are in fact,untrue............

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Everyone else except Davros, please look away now!
Exterminated in the Genesis of the daleks, 1974. Revived in Destiny of the Dalek, 1979, but then frozen in ice. Revived as a disembodied head leading white daleks in Revelation of the Daleks, 1984, taken to Skaro for trial by grey daleks loyal to dalek Supreme. Reappears as Emperor dalek, head of Imperial Dalek faction in Remembrance of the daleks, 1988, presumed dead when mothership destoyed by the Doctor.
New series most likely to start 26th March 2005. First Dalek to be seen in episode 6. episodes 11 and 12 future new dalek army. No sign of Davros as yet. He could well be dead... Although he's appearing onstage over the summer.
Right. Geekiness slot over with.
It's OK, you can all look again. Sorry about that. :o :o

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Originally Posted by Bluebeard

Funnily enough we voted last year to deny many people born in Ireland the right to Irish citizenship.

This is going to bite us on the arse in years to come when some young Romanian who started his career with St. Pats scores in a penalty shootout against us.

The article does turn out as "it is good to be nice", but there is a lot of ground being examined before the conclusion, and I cannot really see any other professional sports writer in this country (except possibly Con Houlihan on the odd day) daring to write something that goes beyond mere information and attempts genuine investigation. It is a reasonably well balanced article and it treats of the matter a little finer than it might be by many of the "commentators" on the issue in the political sphere.

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With all due respece, equating a serious national issue with our footballing prospects is not appropriate. The issue was about numbers and the question of how many are too many. People suddenly appearing in Ireland 8 months pregnant just to get Irish and then EU citizenship isn't right and needed to be stopped.

hey sylvo clear down you private message box.
Hey man....
whats up,
where u homefor christams...presume not. you didnt ring me.
whats going on.
over for portugal game?
going to isreal? im not.
see martin is putting about in thailand again...
loads of lases...

adj

houghton and townsend are heroes lads
and so is morrison, although i dont think eoinh from cork agrees. are you one of the lads that dont cheer when he scores?

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

With all due respece, equating a serious national issue with our footballing prospects is not appropriate. The issue was about numbers and the question of how many are too many. People suddenly appearing in Ireland 8 months pregnant just to get Irish and then EU citizenship isn't right and needed to be stopped.

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I could easily argue this point all night long as it's so full of holes but I won't bother, you've already voted and decided what "the issue" was.

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Originally Posted by lopez

No disrespect to the man for this IMO good piece of journalism - I've not been a great fan of his since Saipan - but he may well have been born in Britain but it's having an English accent that makes the difference in my opinion to the 'real' Irish these days, not where you were born.

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I agree my friend, I only get **** when I tell em where I was born, guys with accents other than Irish get crap when they speak.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

With all due respece, equating a serious national issue with our footballing prospects is not appropriate. The issue was about numbers and the question of how many are too many. People suddenly appearing in Ireland 8 months pregnant just to get Irish and then EU citizenship isn't right and needed to be stopped.

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Talking politics on a football forum is inappropriate surely?

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

Talking politics on a football forum is inappropriate surely?

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Very true. If the politics being discussed aren't related to footy at all - which it has been on plenty of occasions - then there's no place for it on this particular forum.

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Originally Posted by eoinh

Lopez,

Just two points

I know about Hungarys history. The reason there was such a low turnout was because people knew that the vote wasnt going the way of people who were in favour of granting hungarian citizenship to those born outside th country.
having been to Hungary a good few years ago they are without doubt the friendliest people in Europe. (And their women the most beautiful)

About Townsend and Houghton. Clearly there were some players who didnt consider themselves Irish but played for this country. They were only using the national team as a stepping stone to improve their own career not out of any feeling of loyalty.

As for a multi-cultural island - Im all for it!

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I don't mind limited immigration as long as the immigrants either return home or assimilate. I have lived in England and the US for 10 years and I don't think we want to have sizeable ethnic enclaves in urban areas in Cork and Dublin - I don't see what we have to gain, and clearly there is much to lose. Multi-cultutalism just doesn't work, you can be PC about it but the facts are clear - as a rule people of different ethic backgrounds do NOT want to live side by side. BTW I am not being hypocritcal being an emmigrant as I intend returning home, but if I stay my kids would be American, and not even Irish-American.

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Originally Posted by davros

So by your definition,any kids you had in the US would not want to live with you :confused:,as you are now different 'ethnic backgrounds';Am presuming you know people of 'mixed-race'?! Sorry.What you say is relative BS!

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Oh my god, my opinion is shot out of the water by one mixed race couple :rolleyes: You're a fcuking genius.

I guess my fear would be the emergence of an economic underclass which is really what is happening already in Ireland with immigrants from Eastern Europe, the challenge is to assimilate and make them Irish and not make them skivvies. It is the mindless lefty "As for a multi-cultural island - Im all for it!" that I find irksome, I have little faith that racism will not become a bigger problem in Ireland than it already is, for Christ's sake we boo Rangers players. It's not like we are ready for multiculturism quite yet is it?

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

Talking politics on a football forum is inappropriate surely?

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Not everyone will agree with you there. However, probably is out of place in the 'Ireland' section.

And this has what to do with Irish football ??? If I wanted to debate politics I would go to a political forum

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

Oh my god, my opinion is shot out of the water by one mixed race couple :rolleyes: You're a fcuking genius.

I guess my fear would be the emergence of an economic underclass which is really what is happening already in Ireland with immigrants from Eastern Europe, the challenge is to assimilate and make them Irish and not make them skivvies. It is the mindless lefty "As for a multi-cultural island - Im all for it!" that I find irksome, I have little faith that racism will not become a bigger problem in Ireland than it already is, for Christ's sake we boo Rangers players. It's not like we are ready for multiculturism quite yet is it?

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Originally Posted by Magoo

Not everyone will agree with you there. However, probably is out of place in the 'Ireland' section.

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Sorry I dont get the relevance of your link?

What did you honestly think you were going to get into when you read the title of the thread? Calm down will ya. Plenty of other threads discussing whatever you want to talk about. You can even start your own if you like. :ball:

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

Sorry I dont get the relevance of your link?

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Sorry mixed it up with this link - which holds the same sentiments i think.

Check out Green Goblin's post:

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Ahh, foot.ie. There's nowhere else quite like it The breadth of topics covered over the past year have been breathtaking. Politics, shampoo, wedding ettiquette, weather forecasting, lifethreatening illnesses, politics, love, death, war, we even found time to talk about football!

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Originally Posted by davros

Possibly is that the Mods.could have merged these threads......see 'Off Topic'......as for Politics & sport.....inextricably linked.....

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Politics comes into everything and shouldn't be separated for the sake of it, i.e. politics and sport, music, art, culture, etc. I think that if people want to discuss the issues of immigration and the citizenship referendum on their own and not related to sport, though, maybe it should go to another thread? This is an emotive issue and tends to get backs up immediately and drag on and on and on.