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I never saw Miller play for Celtic and have seen him a couple of times for Ireland and Man Utd. He's probably the quietest player I've come across, it's like he's afraid to make himself heard, which just isn't good enough. I don't wish to have an unfair go at him as I haven't seen him play enough. What was it that got everyone raving about him in the first place? Man Utd is normally an ideal place for a young player to go to, what happened?
Like Juan Sara you mean? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
Never mind Juan Sara, I think Sara Lee would cut it in the eL. :p ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
To be fair, he doesn't even play him out there. I thought today would have been the ideal day for the wee one to prove himself, but MON thought that Alan Thompson and Jackie MacNamara were a better option. He got lucky. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
:ball: PP
As I posted previously, it was his performances in the CL games of 2004/04 that started the raving (whether it was by Celtic fans, ex-pros, managers or the press is immaterial). Like you I never saw him playing these or any games for Celtic, so could only go by what was being said and written.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
I have only seen him since on the occasions he has played for Ireland, 5 starts and 2 as sub. In his full games, he was ordinary against Poland, had a decent game against Romania (but not worth the MOM award), he was woeful against Nigeria (but so were the rest of them), he was ordinary against Bulgaria and again against Croatia where the best thing he did was head a ball off the line just after half-time. In the games he came on, 20 minutes against Czech Republic, his debut, and after about an hour against Faroes, he could hardly be described as making an impression.
He did not feature in any of the three 'major' games, away to Holland, Switzerland and France, so we have not had the chance to see if he can do it on the big stage.
Can he do it? I am not convinced, yet! I hope I am wrong.
He hasn't been using the 3-5-2 since the end of the season bar a couple of times he was forced to.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
That's a less-than-subtle change of direction you're making. Where's the apology to Celtic fans then? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Likewise, although if he continues to fall flat on his arse career-wise, I'll find it hard to sympathise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
:) PP
I think Donal81 hit the spot with Miller...He just seems afraid to show what he's got, from what little I've seen of him. A lack of confidence? He seems to show a lot of good touches and movement in midfield, but seems to suffer from a lack of concentration as well? I don't know...
I always laugh when people see him as a Roy Keane type...He's the same size, from the same place, but that's it...He lacks Keane's ability to control and take over a game, and in no way comes close to his physical attributes, except perhaps for his engine...Has Miller or anyone else the size of Keane (height and weight) been able to physically dominate midfield as Roy has? Few are as good in the air at Roy's size too, in my opinion....Those are the main attributes that Roy has, along with his old ability to run like mad for 90 minutes, and I don't think Miller on his best day is has all of this...He's more a creative type, no? Having said all that, he still HAS to be better than Darren Fletcher!
No change of direction subtle or otherwise so I don't think any apology is required. Eirebhoy pointed that Miller was overhyped by people other than Celtic fans, I have no reason to doubt him and hence the inclusion of these others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
The point I was making earlier was that all the hype I ever heard about Miller was from people I know who are Celtic fans. No doubt they based their views on what they had seen. As it transpires, Celtic fans went cold on Miller, not because he did not live up to the expectations of how good a player he was or would become but simply because he turned his back on Celtic and moved to MU.
As I posted earlier, I could not care less what club he pays for as long as he can do the business for us. I would have been quite happy if he had lived up to the hype regardless of who hyped him up. So far, he has been disappointing playing for Ireland.
My mind may be playing tricks on me but I think his game is a lot more resricted at ManUre. At Celtic he would pick the ball up deep and move forward with it, lay it off and he would also make good runs into the box ala his goal against Lyon, from what I seen of him playing for ManUre (against Chelsea and Norwich early on int he season) he is simply playing as a kind of link up midfielder to pick the ball up and move it on, this defo makes him look lessof a player than at Parkhead.
Leaving aside the disappointment of his move (why do any of us ever listen to players who say that their dream is to play for Club Y as they have supported them all their life) I felt that it was badly timed, as he hadn't established himself in the SPL never mind moving to a tougher league, he needed at least another season at Celtic before going south. Potential definately there but playing reserve team football or bench warming at Old Trafford will mean that his career stagnates.
Celtic fans were raving about him when he had those good games in the Champions League, I'm sure you'd find threads on foot if you looked back.
Irish United fans thought he was a great signing as he was going to be the new Keano, not convinced the Manc's thought so.
United would never have signed him if he wasn't available for free.
Celtic didn't tie him down to a long contract before he made those great appearances - so harsh to blame him for taking the opportunity
People forget how old Miller actually is - talk of potential, give him a run in the team, etc etc. He'd want to produce soon as he's getting towards his "prime"
Whatever about when he signed, he's beginning to lose the OT crowd - just by simply not being up to it. I can think of 3 reserve teams put out in Cups this season where he's failed to stand out despite being one of the senior players, being subbed in two as far as I recall (Exeter on Saturday, and I think he was subbed in the last of the group games in Europe). Lets face it, if you're not standing out in a team that includes Richardson and Bellion you're in trouble.
Of course there's not. I'm only pulling your leg. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
God, you're so bloody reasonable, Pat. Why can't you be bitter and twisted like me regarding Miller? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton
:D PP
I have mixed emotions regarding Miller
As a Celtic fan I hate the little ****er but Im also an Ireland supporter so part of me wants him to do well because it will be of benefit to the national team
Bottom line is though that for alot of his time at Celtic fc he was injured and was always assured of getting his chance when he got fit (which he was).
He took it and as soon as Man U came sniffing around him he was off!
Yes celtic definitally were wrong to let him go into the final year of his contract but as was stated he was injured alot of the time.
He was wanted by Celtic, adored by the fans and was to be given the biggest contract of any young player in the history of Scottish football (not far behind what Man U offered).
The irony is his departure has open the door for McGeady who if he fulfills his full potential will be ten times the player Miller ever will be..........
Infact hes already better in my opinion so as far as Im concerned Miller can sit in the stands in Old Trafford for the next four years like the traitorous little ****e he is.
Why only part of you? Haven't you got your priorities mixed up?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmenToThat
I was disappointed he left CP because I'm a Celtic fan and because I felt it was the wrong move at the wrong time for him, and for the Irish team.
But I'll always be rooting for the guy and I hope he does well for himself.
You're playing for a mediocre team in a brutal league. The biggest club in the world asks you to move and play for them. I assume you'd turn it down, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmenToThat
Celtic are hardly mediocre. Had it escaped your notice that the club are SPL champions? And as for the five points that an admittedly past-its-best side won in this season's Champions League? Mediocrity exemplified. :rolleyes:
In any case Donal, you're expecting us - as football fans - to be too reasonable in this context. Miller crossed the line when he claimed when interviewed on more than one occasion that he was a fan of Celtic. If he was, he'd not have left the moment ManUre came sniffing. He devalued what it means to be a Celtic supporter. And that's why we're still sore about his departure.
:ball: PP
I don't know. It happens in all walks of life. Company A offers you a pay rise to leave Company B so you go.
OK, it's not quite the same in football where you're financially secure for life before you're 25 but the broad principle applies. Maybe he wanted to test himself on what is undoubtedly a bigger stage.
I said at the time that I felt he was wrong to leave & he must have been badly advised. My viewpoint was that of an Irish fan - I wanted to see him develop by playing more football. As I just said in the Andy Reid thread, the Premiership is not the be-all and end-all. Celtic is undoubtedly a big enough club and high enough standard of football for an Irish international. In fact I'd be very happy if Reid was to join Celtic for example.
But he had only just got into Celtic's first team. Two excellent CL performances and a few very accomplished performances in the SPL was all he had done. I saw him against Fulham pre-season 2003 and he looked real quality. But he was totally pants against Villereal. He's also injury prone and anyone could have seen he'd struggle to hold down a place at MUFC. Another full season at CP would have been much better for him. He's 24(?) and has played how many first team games ever?
You can't blame Miller for trying to better himself. Celtic diddered over offering him a new contract. Be honest, they took him for granted. This loyalty thing amazes me. Don't forget pro footballers are hired hands. Their career is short. When a new manager arrives they can be out the door, ask Andy O'Brien. So if somebody comes along and offers him more money to play for a bigger club, you can't blame them. Football is an industry, people forget about all the kids that don't make it and are discarded after 3 or 4 years.
couple of things -ALL players leave for the biggest club - there is no such thing as loyalty in football if the player has any self regard or wish for self improvement (on every level footballing and financial) - the only "loyal" players are those not required by bigger clubs or simply too chicken to try their luck in a bigger pond
Manchester United is a better gig for Miller so it was a no brainer move.
Thats the move dealt with.
As for Miller himself - theres only two possibilities - he's lost his form since the move - or b) he was always no good
it looks increasingly like he was no good....
He can easily be a fan of Celtic while playing for Man Utd. I don't think I'm expecting too much reason here - a player gets offered a better deal with a much better club in a much better league: why the hell should he stay? Football clubs toss away footballers they don't need but footballers are expected to show loyalty that they know won't be repayed. I know following football doesn't equate with a reasonable attitude but come on, the chap had a chance to play for Man Utd and get out of that poxy league. I appreciate that a Celtic fan might miss him but to castigate him for leaving? Come on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy
I've seen lots of small/light players who could look after themselves
eg Dennis Wise
but Miller is getting sand kicked in his face in every match I see him play and the number of games is getting fewer.