First division teams building for the future!

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16/01/2005, 6:19 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buller

In my ideal scenario we'd have;
1. An 8 team All-Ireland League, 4 teams North and South & 2 religation Spots
:o :o :o

Buller - are you mad ?? An 8 team premiership ?? There's no reason in the world for one to be that small. How many times would you look for teams to play each other? Even if it was 4, which is more than enough, the season would only run for just over 6 months !! And that's ignoring how dull and repetitive it would be. Having the top tier that small would only be bad, bad, bad for the game.

There's currenttly 58 senior teams on the island of Ireland. Admittedly, a number of those are mickey mouse (Ballinamallard United ? Coagh United ??), so could do with being weeded-out back to Intermediate level. However, there'd easily be at least 40 decent teams to place within a 2 -tier pyrmaid structure. A Premier division of 16 teams, with 2 First divisions of 12 each run along 'north-south' geographical lines (i.e. not just NI and ROI split). 2 relegation spots from Prem, top one from each of the regional first divisions automatically promoted, and a play off involving the 2 second placed teams in the regional firsts in a semi, with the winner playing the 3rd from bottom Prem team in a promotion/relegation final at either Lansdowne, Windsor or Turners Cross (depending on the finalists).

Only technical issue I can see with the above is what to do if, say, 3 Northern teams get relegated form the Prem, whilst 2 of the 3 promoted teams from the Regional Firsts are Sothern ? Must be some easy way of sorting this out to maintain 10 teams in each Regional First (re-distribute the teams along the best north-south split ?), as regional leagues work well in England (e.g. Conference North and South).
16/01/2005, 6:33 PM
GalwayFrancis

I like what your saying, its what i've been thinking for ages... only one question....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

with 2 First divisions of 12 each run along 'north-south' geographical lines (i.e. not just NI and ROI split)

....where what galway united be,,,north or south?
16/01/2005, 6:39 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

I like what your saying, its what i've been thinking for ages... only one question........where what galway united be,,,north or south?

If there's 10 teams lower than them geographically, then they'd be North. Otherwise they'd be south :)

Seems the only sensible way of doing it I think. Having a permanent geographical split between the divisions would cease functioning after 1 or 2 seasons of relegation/promotion.
16/01/2005, 6:55 PM
GalwayFrancis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If there's 10 teams lower than them geographically, then they'd be North. Otherwise they'd be south :)

Seems the only sensible way of doing it I think. Having a permanent geographical split between the divisions would cease functioning after 1 or 2 seasons of relegation/promotion.

so your saying one year we could get promoted from the southern 2st division and later get relegated into the northern 2st division,.....wierd....but sounds good,new oppostion, so long as we can play sligo :D
16/01/2005, 7:37 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

so your saying one year we could get promoted from the southern 2st division and later get relegated into the northern 2st division,.....wierd....but sounds good,new oppostion, so long as we can play sligo :D

I like your optimism :)

Wierd I know, but can't see it working any other way apart from a 4-way Provincial split, which just wouldn't work.

Unfortunately teams in the middle of the country far from Dublin (i.e Galway, Sligo, Longford, Athlone) would be in the 'no-man's land' that could ebb and flow between divisions dependent upon location of the other teams in the First Divisions. Would certainly make it more interesting than playing the same teams all the time tho, and if one division was particualrly tough, you could always prey for a shift into the other one... :)
17/01/2005, 1:32 PM
sullanefc

I don't see any reason why this regional idea can't be done without IL teams. Why not invite senior teams (who are not LOI teams) to join a regionalised First division and then you'd have a bigger premier. Down the road if an all Ireland league comes about then you can accomodate them, but for now start with the ROI teams.
17/01/2005, 4:51 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I don't see any reason why this regional idea can't be done without IL teams. Why not invite senior teams (who are not LOI teams) to join a regionalised First division and then you'd have a bigger premier. Down the road if an all Ireland league comes about then you can accomodate them, but for now start with the ROI teams.

Crowds in our league aren't great as it is. In most of the First Division they're brutal (Mons, Limerick, Athlone, Kilkenny, UCD/Dublin City). Bringing in new unestablished teams into a smilar second tier structure would probably just see more clubs with brutal attendances and do little to really advance the league.

We've got 22 teams in the EL at the moment. Although there's a distinct Dublin bias, I think that's about right as a number (maybe 24 as a max, if a Kerry and another Connacht team looked to join). Any significant expansion beyond this number should only take place in the context of an all-island competition, as you'd need something to create sufficient exposure/interest around the change to have any chance of it being a success.
17/01/2005, 5:58 PM
iceman

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

Until that happens nothing is going to change. The Setanta Cup is going to be a good thing to get the media talking about an All-Ireland league and maybe put some pressure on the IFA/FAI to think about it. I seriously think it is the ONLY way in which the football here can progress..

Have to disagree here. The standard between the two leagues is vast , as Im sure the Setanta Cup will show.

I'd put the Irish league on a par with our 1st. Div.
17/01/2005, 6:41 PM
anto eile

you could split the league along east west lines. have east coast teams in one first div, everyone else from central and west region in the other group.
17/01/2005, 8:45 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto eile

you could split the league along east west lines. have east coast teams in one first div, everyone else from central and west region in the other group.

Not sure an east-west split would make sense from a travel-cost point of view ? Ballymena/Larne/Coleraine v Waterford ? With the majority of clubs in the country in Dublin and Belfast, you'd have some fairly wierd geographical split in the country trying to balance the numbers. The line would probably have to start at Ballymena or somewhere east of the Bann, skirt along Belfast, but separating it from Lisburn, run down west of Newry, Louth and Dublin, splitting Kildare off from the Dub teams, and finish down at Waterford, with Kilkenny possibly in a different division. One league would have teams making either seriously short cross-town/cross-county journeys or major north-south expeditions, whilst the other league would be scattered over about three-quarters of the island...

It would also split-up more traditional rivalriies than a north-south split - would be ridiculous to deliberatly not put Derry City in the same region as Linfield, Glens, Coleraine etc. With a north-south split, the only traditional rivalry I can see getting split could be Galway-Sligo, though to be fair to both teams that rivalry's as much of a case of 'let's dislike our nearest team' as it is a genuine time-developed heart-felt hostility a la Rovers-Bohs, Arsenal-Spurs, Celtic-Rangers.
17/01/2005, 9:16 PM
GalwayFrancis

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

the only traditional rivalry I can see getting split could be Galway-Sligo

ah sure we'd be in the prem while sligo try and figure out if they are north or south of the border for the 1st division....

much in favour of the north/south splitt
17/01/2005, 9:40 PM
1 9 2 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayFrancis

ah sure we'd be in the prem while sligo try and figure out if they are north or south of the border for the 1st division....

much in favour of the north/south splitt

Keep dreaming............. [SIZE=1]Galway United[/SIZE] forever in our shadow :p
18/01/2005, 2:49 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

Have to disagree here. The standard between the two leagues is vast , as Im sure the Setanta Cup will show.

I'd put the Irish league on a par with our 1st. Div.

There are far too many teams in the IL. They have 40 teams for a population of between 1.5 and 2 million. The ROI has a population of 4 million so then if we followed the NI example of teams for population then we should have 80+ teams. If the IL dumped at least half of their teams then I think they would improve. I don't agree that IL is on a par to our 1st Division as i think the top 6/7 in the IL top flight could hold there own in our Premier Division..

As for the Setanta cup, Linfield, Portadown and Glentoran are currently the top three teams in the IL and they will be well up for the Setanta cup (prize money and getting one over on the LOI) so I think some people might be shocked by the IL teams.

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