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Actually i saw the full list last year and it was very wierd. This was especially true in some regions of the world for instance where the concntration on football matters was on a regional basis. I remember the coach of somewhere like Vanuatu gave his top three votes to players from Vanuatu!Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
If you look back you'll actually see I compared the best English Players with players from Real Madrid. I merely asked for the top class players at the other clubs that are so-much better than in England. It lowers your argument when you misquote. Intesting to see you include Slyvinho who is struggling to get in ahead of a midfielder in Gio Van B. and had to leave Arsenal due to the emergence of Ashly Cole - the mind boggles how you consider that better than Cole or Bridge at Chelsea!! :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
I just can't believe that you rate the likes of Edmilson, Puyol, Syvinho, Ayala etc higher than Terry, Gallas, Ferriera, Bridge, Carvalho,Ferdinand, Cole,Campbell,Hypia etc - that AMAZES me! :D
KERR: Ronaldinho, Henry, Deco
Good to see our own International Manager knows nothing about Football too! :D
HOw can we trust Kerr to pick a team when he votes for Henry! :eek:
i didnt rate the as being better, worse or the same as the players you mentioned. All id was respond to
I mean who are the world class defenders at West Brom, Norwich or Southampton for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
There are no world class defenders at those clubs and likewise there are no world class players in the list you gave with the possible exception of Puyol at Barcelona not at Atlectico.Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh
I was responding to the argument that's it's harder for Ronaldinho to score in the spanish league becuase the defensive players are better which was given as a reason why Henry didn't deserve the award, goals scored where mentioned not by me.
curiously the same people making that argument have ignored Ronaldinho strike rate in the European Cup which flaters significantly against Henry's 28 and his assist levels not to mention having scored more goals at world cup level also.
The argument was centred around GOALS....any intelligent person knows that both players games are not centred around goal scoring which is why Henry is seen as so special as his goal contibution are nothing short of amazing considering he will smash Ian Wright's league goal scoring record with his next two goals in a shorter space of time.
Least we not forget that a winger has in effect finished top of the european boot chart last year ahead of out and out stikers and european player of the year Shevchenko.
Ronaldinho at FIFA Press Conference - 'Unlike both my rivals, I've never been a great goalscorer, so it's already a victory just to be here'
source: fifa.com
MMMM, maybe it REALLY has nothing to do with Spain having MUCH better defences after all - not according to the GREATEST player in the world anyway. :D
only the most moronic disciple of the Murdoch/Sky Hypership could write that. And FYI, Carvalho and Ferreira 9both class players) weren't around until very recently, so hardly had an impact on henry's game! Puyol is possibly the most under-rated player in the primera liga, much as I hate praising any barca player.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Moronic Disciple. Nothing like an educated rebuttal.... :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
The reason I mentioned both Carvalho & Ferreira was that both played in that 'small' game that Arsenal played Vs Chelsea in which Theirry Henry scored twice, it was in retaliation to the fact that Henry doesn't score in big games against high profile players! It's morons who have to make personal attacks and remarks who show their real true colours in a debate.
At least you got one thing right, Puyol is class (just like Carvalho, Terry, Campbell etc) as I have previously said but then again I probably only know that from watching SKY!!! The fact that we are even discussing Puyol as possibly the best defender supports my argument, he plays for the same team as Ronaldinho so it is someone he never has to face. I would rather be up against Ayala, Helgura, Raul Bravo, et al any day than have to play against Campbell, Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Gallas.
yes, "moronic disciple" they are those people who believe what sky tells them and are so deluded its impossible to have a decent discussion with them. they're brainwashed by sky. And your post could have come straight from Andy Gray's personal manual on "bigging up crap football cos its british."
henry scored twice (one cracker, one lucky/quick thinking) in ONE game. What about all the games for France, or for Arsenal in Europe that he has totally vanished? My point was, a "big" game in Spain is tougher than a "big" game in England, and a "big" game in europe or internationally is tougher again. And henry might well perform in big games in england (like I said, I don't really know or care) but not in the real testers. the other two players in the top 3 do- all the time. but anyway, every game is a big game according to sky and their disciples- even if its aldershot v accrington stanley in the over-99 reserves 5th division.
LADS, THIS IS A GOOD TOPIC, BUT IS GETTING DESTROYED BY THE PETTY NAME-CALLING.
Please tone it down, or itll be split, and rubbished.
You are seriously mistaken if you think the extent of my football knowledge has come from Sky Sports. Since you seem intent on avoiding the hype of Sky - you may want to toddle off there and have a look at the champions league, international & world cup performance statistics provided by fifa and opta. Have a particular look at goals scored & assists for all three and then make a comparison. For one who wants to avoid hype you seem to have a sincere fear of facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Put the stats up and we'll all have a look
let's look at Ronaldinho strike rate in europe for Barca, PSG & in international competition Brasil - let's look at his goals per game ratio in the major competitions i.e. world cup & champions league, let's look at his goal assists in the european cup - hey let's do it with Shevchenko too.
Let's look at the facts and then leave all subjective opinion behind and tell me what the facts say.
I accept that at the moment Ronaldinho is the most exciting player in the world to watch right now and truely deserving of his reward but the drivel that has been written here has come not from Sky but from the bar stools of Ireland and back pages of the sun and the mirror - i don't know what is worse. :mad:
which is exactly what I was saying. Look, many other years I would have gone for Henry, he IS a class player. But he isn't in the same league as Shevchenko or Ronaldinho.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
I just can't see how else you would call some of those guys class players? Because they aren't. Terry WILL be, but he has only just started getting in the England team ahead of a cráp player like Ferdinand. hardly proof of brilliance. I'm not talking about facts, facts can only prove so much- facts will tell you what a great passer roy keane is, because of his pas completion rate- doesn't tell you they're all two yard passes back or sideways. And i'm not getting into debates about goalscoring ratios cos they mean nothing. IMPACT on big games is what matters. And Ronaldinho has done more in tha regard than Henry. simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
The fact that he finishes second in consequtive years I think proves he is very much in the same league and i note he is the only player this year to have been in the top 3 two years running. He finished over 300 votes ahead of Shevchenko - certainly there are international captains and managers (including our own) who disagrees with you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
:D
To be honest you could go through them all and document the impact of both players good and badQuote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
Ronaldinho getting sent off in the world cup, henry doing the same
Henry scoring in the Euro Chamionships semi final & 4 times in France '98, Ronaldinho scoring in world cup quarter final, shevchenko in champions league semi-final etc
Ronaldinho scoring vs AC Milan, Henry scoring twice and running the show away at Inter at the same stage....
Ronaldinho playing well vs Madrid, Valencia , Henry doing the same Vs Chelsea, utd, Sheva doing the same Vs Juventus
3 World Class Players with very little between them all - and certainly none have achieved more than to be classed as a league above any of them. I think Ronaldinho is probably more entertaining in the tricks department than both if anything but certainly hasn't achieved anywhere near the silverware of Henry and Shevchenko.
He is right to be named world palyer of the year and probably lucky it was based on a calender year and not a season as he only came into form after Barca's signing of Edgar Davids in the january window after some inconsistant form in the early part of the season by both his club and the player himself.
don't agree. ronaldinho and henry have both won the world cup- henry was a sub with minimal impact, ronaldinho was a star in that brazil side. shev has won leagues in italy and the champs league. henry has won leagues in england, which is a lot easier than to do it in italy, and ronaldinho has hardly had a chance to win much. as you say, very little to chose between themQuote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
The world has gone mad when 4 goals in a world cup finals is minimal impact,Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
- Ronaldinho the star who was excellent in the groups stages against the powers of world football China & Turkey and who got him self sent off Vs the Average English Team and then missed the big semi-final and in the really big final it was his mate the REAL RONALDO who was the star! but that's just given the facts which of course mean nothing! :eek:
3 great players, we'll agree to disagree! :D
Would that be the game he set up the fist goal and scored the winner in then? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
always get the feeling when Henry plays/celebrates that it's him against the world
difference is when Ronaldinho does his stuff he's really enjoying it/hardly ever see him moan - or get into the petty side of things (Henry has this tendancy). In my opinion Ronaldinho is one of the best team players around - even when his team mates are **** poor he shines (see performances 4 PSG).
Henry one of the best, but still behind Ronaldinho in most aspects of game.
seeing as you said previously that you have never watched a premiership match how can you judge these premiership players. thats like all the barstoolers who dont watch the eL but still say its crap :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by eoinh