Ireland v Romania 25/06/1990: Live on RTE

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

You couldn't possibly call it over-exaggerated. Eh Stutts?

First time at a World Cup. Got out of a hellish group. Got through to a QF against the hosts. It would have been better to have gotten further or maybe actually beaten ROM over 90/120 but you can't not play down the effect that that had on soccer in this country.

I would be more inclined to concentrate on our failure to qualify for Euro92 as our biggest failure of the era.

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The group was tough, I accept that but qualification was always on offer, a win over Egypt and even with 2 losses against England and Netherlands, would have probably been enough to get to the last 16 anyway. I'm sure that would have been the thinking at the time. So to get out of the group would not have been a major surprise.

Yes, it gripped the country but the reaction was grossly over the top for me, to celebrate getting to a quarter-final is hardly an ambitious mentality. If we are to see teams getting bus drives through cities for achieving a quarter-final regardless of sport or competition, what does that say to future athletes, "You know what, I don't actually have to win things to get a great reception back home", it does not incentivise those athletes to be true winners.

Shamrock Rovers probably achieved a harder quest and hardly got any recognition for it. Cricket Ireland's success in 3 world cups gets disappointing coverage yet Katie Taylor gets queen like status for being the best woman's amateur boxer. If she was a true great boxer, she would go pro and do herself justice but never gets questions like this, but that's a different issue here.

Just a bizarre sporting country!

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

The group was tough, I accept that but qualification was always on offer, a win over Egypt and even with 2 losses against England and Netherlands, would have probably been enough to get to the last 16 anyway.

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Don't think so, Scotland and Austria were both on 2 points and -1 GD. It'd probably have gone to lots between the three of us.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

We drew with three of the best teams in Europe and lost narrowly to another, the hosts. It was a huge achievement, even if we didn't win a game.

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But at that time, the Irish team proved that were one of the best teams in Europe if not the World, the results showed that they were capable of beating any team. Just look at the list of teams that Ireland beat/drew with, they would have been feared by all teams.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Don't think so, Scotland and Austria were both on 2 points and -1 GD. It'd probably have gone to lots between the three of us.

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Just looking at it again, thought it was 3 points for a win!

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

But at that time, the Irish team proved that were one of the best teams in Europe if not the World, the results showed that they were capable of beating any team. Just look at the list of teams that Ireland beat/drew with, they would have been feared by all teams.

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I think you're seeing things with green-tinted spectacles. Nobody feared us - not even England after we beat them in '88 - but they did respect us (even if they expected to still win). We had a super team and were very well-organised and tactically superb but we didn't have the world class quality of any of the teams we faced, bar Egypt.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Just looking at it again, thought it was 3 points for a win!

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Ahh, right. I believe the drawfest of Italia '90 was one of the reasons FIFA finally decided to follow the League of Ireland's lead and adopt three points for a win.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I think you're seeing things with green-tinted spectacles. Nobody feared us - not even England after we beat them in '88 - but they did respect us (even if they expected to still win). We had a super team and were very well-organised and tactically superb but we didn't have the world class quality of any of the teams we faced, bar Egypt.

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Well, I would not consider myself to see things in a pro-Irish way but more rational way, but if we look at the stats from the times, from 1989 to 1993, Ireland played 28 competitive games and only lost twice, that Italy game and to Spain 3-1, that game being that 28th game. Remember the World record is about 30 competitive games without a loss which Spain got last summer. Ireland were ranked 6th in the world in 1993, hardly a team you think you beat with confidence as the English may have thought, sure they could never beat Ireland in that time.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Well, I would not consider myself to see things in a pro-Irish way but more rational way, but if we look at the stats from the times, from 1989 to 1993, Ireland played 28 competitive games and only lost twice, that Italy game and to Spain 3-1, that game being that 28th game. Remember the World record is about 30 competitive games without a loss which Spain got last summer. Ireland were ranked 6th in the world in 1993, hardly a team you think you beat with confidence as the English may have thought, sure they could never beat Ireland in that time.

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Aye, but we're talking about up to June 1990, or whatever date the World Cup started. We went on a great run on the back of the tournament (though I still think Italy and the Netherlands expected to beat us in the US, and the Mexicans would have been confident) but we certainly weren't a feared team going into 1990. I'm aware of our ranking and a record that would be unimaginable for the current generation, but look at it like this: Switzerland were, what, seventh in the world going into this World Cup, having beaten Brazil and Germany and whoever else. Do you think France went into the groups fearing them, or Argentina feared them in the knockouts? Not at all, they made the last 16 which was about as good as they could have expected, despite being statistically one of the best teams in the world.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Is it just me or is the reaction to Ireland's world cup run in Italia 90' over exaggerated. They did not win a single game, somehow came second with 3 points without a win, came through a penalty shootout which is random, so I cannot see what is to celebrate here.

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Holland drew all three games as well, the European Champions at the time with the spine of one the greatest club sides of all time. Why focus on not winning a single game, surely the focus should be remaining unbeaten in a group where we would have been seen as third best.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

The group was tough, I accept that but qualification was always on offer, a win over Egypt and even with 2 losses against England and Netherlands, would have probably been enough to get to the last 16 anyway.

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Even if this was correct (which we've established it isn't) so what? We didn't qualify with a token win over Egypt, we qualified despite being held by them. We looked beaten twice against teams that would have been seen as superior but we managed to come up with the goods late in both games. It was the stuff that heroes are made of... never accepting defeat, pride in the jersey, fighting til the end, no inferiority complex, all that jazz.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Yes, it gripped the country but the reaction was grossly over the top for me, to celebrate getting to a quarter-final is hardly an ambitious mentality.

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You're talking about a small nation that had never even qualified before and endured what must have seemed like relentless heartache along the way. Qualifying in itself was massive because it was unprecedented, just look at scenes at Croke Park on Sunday when Westmeath finally beat Meath for the first time... they know they're not going to win the Leinster Championship but the result was an end in itself. It was the same thing for us in 1990, the tournament itself was bonus territory in a way. It's the biggest tournament on the planet and we were finally a part of it, on the map so to speak and on the back of an excellent European Championship campaign it cemented a golden era for Irish football, even without knowing what would follow afterwards. It stands to reason the country would be on a high - what I wouldn't give for an era like that now!

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

If we are to see teams getting bus drives through cities for achieving a quarter-final regardless of sport or competition, what does that say to future athletes, "You know what, I don't actually have to win things to get a great reception back home", it does not incentivise those athletes to be true winners.

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Celebrating achieving something that had never been done before served to promote mediocrity? Jesus man, you'd make Roy Keane seem upbeat.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Shamrock Rovers probably achieved a harder quest and hardly got any recognition for it. Cricket Ireland's success in 3 world cups gets disappointing coverage yet Katie Taylor gets queen like status for being the best woman's amateur boxer. If she was a true great boxer, she would go pro and do herself justice but never gets questions like this, but that's a different issue here.

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The popularity and status of these sports, events or competitions are obviously going to contribute heavily to the levels of hysteria. It doesn't get any bigger than the football World Cup. The Olympics is massive as well in fairness to Katie Taylor, amateur or otherwise. With all due respect to our cricketers, and they deserve plenty, surely she has done more to help "incentivise those athletes to be true winners", going by your own logic?

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

But at that time, the Irish team proved that were one of the best teams in Europe if not the World, the results showed that they were capable of beating any team. Just look at the list of teams that Ireland beat/drew with, they would have been feared by all teams.

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Exactly. It wasn't just the World Cup itself, it was the whole period when we went from being nobodies to somebodies, mixing it with the big boys and holding our own. We had a good team, absolutely, why wasn't that worth celebrating? Because we lost narrowly to a power house home nation in the quarter finals?

25 Years/Italia 90: June 30, The Italian Job

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

25 Years/Italia 90: June 30, The Italian Job

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Like Shay against Croatia, I'll never forgive Packie for this.

It was pretty poor to be fair.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

Is it just me or is the reaction to Ireland's world cup run in Italia 90' over exaggerated. They did not win a single game, somehow came second with 3 points without a win, came through a penalty shootout which is random, so I cannot see what is to celebrate here.

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Football supporters in this country up to 1990 had been like the little boy with his nose pressed to the window watching all his neighbours and friends attending a party and yet he couldn't get in. We were the Oliver Twist of football with our begging bowl. Decade after decade passed as we watched others, including Northern Ireland and Scotland, dine from the top table of football and bask in its glory. And then, after years of heart ache and failure, we were there and not only were we there but we were competing against the like of the English and the Dutch whom we had seen doing well at previous tournaments. The standard of football was irrelevant. Being there was what was important and if we had drawn anyone other than the Italians in Rome, who knows what might have happened. The enthusiasm of being at this great sporting event spread beyond the 20/30k hardcore Irish supporters to the nation because as a country we had at last been admitted to the party and were enjoying the spoils. We could hold our heads up high.

As an 8 year old I remember watching a show on Eurosport which was going through the official World Cup songs from each team.

When they got to Put 'em Under Pressure, the presenter, and I remember it distinctly, laughingly added that "the Irish even think they can WIN the tournament!".

I was livid. But to add to the discussion above, I do not think anyone feared us.