GAA to open Croker

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Originally Posted by Macy

Totally agree. The money the GAA have got for Croke Park would've built eP and we wouldn't be in this situation now.

Government gives millions to the GAA to rebuild Croke Park, Government refuses to back eP as they need anchors for their own stadium, FAI gives in (economically they had no choice given what the Government was promising), Government then say they won't be building the out of town stadium, years of Government inaction and indecision, FAI get blamed for not having a stadium built, whilst the GAA get praised for a virtually state funded facility.

I'd like to see figures for how much the GAA, Horsey Set and Doggy Worries have got over the lifetime of this Government compared to all other sports, never mind football.

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Have to agree with you Macy. Also, what a great post by Eanna. Why do people accept bigotry and corruption in this country? The GAA are a sectarian organisation and dont deserve funding. The government fcuked up Eircom Park by blackmailing the similarly corrupt idiots within the FAI. Its enough to make anyone ashamed to be Irish. Its quite clear that the government should have withheld the latest grant from the GAA until they allowed soccer and rugby into Croker. With regard to the GAA's debt, I think it would suit them better if their clubs in America stopped sending funds back to Northern Ireland to do god knows what, and spent this money to pay off their debt. However, maybe they know that the government won't see them in trouble.

1. FACT: The FAI had plans for a new stadium that would've been built several years ago for around the cost of the last installment of Croke Park funding
2. FACT: The FAI were told they would receive no funding for eP, the GAA may have started the re-development of Croke Park before Government funding was in place, they sure as hell wouldn't have go near to finishing it without it.
3. FACT: Any conditions of use that the GAA puts on Croke Park is to do with the GAA not the Government. If they want €40mill plus a large rent then the Government should tell them it's unacceptable, spin it to the whole country so that the GAA is shed in the light the bigots deserve.
4. FACT: The GAA is happy enough to use Football and Rugby grounds throughout the world for their games. I'd like to see them survive with no access to grounds in the rest of the world.

GAA = votes, traditional FF votes. Simple as that. Any politician would be crazy to get offside with the GAA.
Now, I know I'm now risking an onslaught from Connor74, but O'Donoghue plays politics. I have never heard him make a policy statement in 10 years as minister (apart from his 'zero tolerance' initiative ha ha ha). His role now is to dole out money in his own and marginal consituencies (see how much McDaid gave to North Kerry before the last election because it looked like FF were going to lose a seat there) and to promote tourism (again his own constituency being a major beneficiary).

BTW, did anybody read the Sean Kelly interview in the Indo on Saturday? He asserted that All Ireland ticket prices were cheaper than the big games in soccer and rugby. Now I don't know about rugby, but I paid €60 for an All Ireland ticket in September, while my World Cup qualifier tickets cost €30, albeit a North Bucket seat..what is the dearest stand ticket for a WCQ in Lansdowne?

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Originally Posted by roboyle

Not going to get drawn into this argument like the last time, but here are a few points:
1. FACT: The GAA started re-building Croke Park before ANY promises of funding was made by the Government. They are perfectly entitled to apply for funding aid, like every other sporting organisation in the country. If you think they've received to much already, that's the fault of the Government, not the GAA.
2. FACT: The Government will be contributing more than double the contributions (combined) of the IRFU and FAI for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road - € 191m against the combined contributions of c € 70m. AT the end of the project the IRFU and FAI will own the stadium once again (although this has not been explicitly stated, it is understood to be the case). What other sports will be played there when the stadium is completed? What other sports are played there at the moment?

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its a pretty well known fact that the GAA will never be able to pay back the loan on the redevelopment costs. at the moment they are paying interest only. its a pretty safe bet that the government will contribute most of the outstanding money although only time will tell on that one. therefore the government will have paid as much (€110m to date + €98m outstanding debt), if not more, on croke park as it will on lansdowne.

i'm sick of hearing about how great they are as an amateur organisation re-building the stadium etc. etc...... they dont charge amateur prices to go and watch their games/dine in their executive boxes do they??

its a fact that large amts of public money have gone into croke park and not a single cent more should go until a publically funded stadium is open to all the public.

in response to point 2 above..... the new lansdowne will be able to hold GAA matches and the GAA have already stated they would be interested in holding lower profile games there

The fact that the GAA got so much taxpayers money is the government's fault. Can't blame them for taking all they could get.

If the government keep their commitments re Lansdowne then fair enough.

I actually thin kthe government should say to the GAA that they obviously have no need of future funding if they are turning down millions in rent from the F.A.I. and the IRFU.

They do deserve any criticism they get for being sectarian though. They don't get very much in the media.

I've no great love of GAA. Their brand of football is primitive and boring. But, to blame them for this situation is daft. All they've done is look after their own interests. Money was on offer. They took it, no strings attached. To come back now and demand that they give the FAI/IRFU access is just not realistic or legally valid.

You can get upset, rant and rave, call them names and cry all you want. It won't change the reality of the situation.

Whether you like it or not, the GAA own Corker and they are 100% in their rights to charge a hefty sum in order to open it up to alternative sports. They have a monopoly on a resource and it makes good business sense to charge a hefty price for those who wish to gain access to that resource. Their attitude is practical, legally solid and totally justified.

Time to live in the real world kiddies.

If you want to hate someone, consider the following - FF gave the GAA husge sums of cash to keep the stadium closed. The same government suckered the FAI/IRFU into the dream world of a National stadium.
None of that is the fault of the GAA.

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Originally Posted by liamon

I've no great love of GAA. Their brand of football is primitive and boring.

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we should just ban g. football, imagine how many center-halves we'd have then :confused: ;)

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Originally Posted by liamon

Whether you like it or not, the GAA own Corker and they are 100% in their rights to charge a hefty sum in order to open it up to alternative sports. They have a monopoly on a resource and it makes good business sense to charge a hefty price for those who wish to gain access to that resource. Their attitude is practical, legally solid and totally justified.

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you're 100% correct there. but, given the amount of money they've got, they could show a little generosity of spirit. ultimately, it comes down to the government, who are to blame for the whole sorry mess.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

but, given the amount of money they've got, they could show a little generosity of spirit.

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100% agree.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

ultimately, it comes down to the government, who are to blame for the whole sorry mess.

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100% agree with that too.

The GAA could start by removing Rule 42 immediately, then leave it up to the individual clubs/counties/central council to make their own decisions. Whether an agreement is reached is another question, but rule 42 is nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy (I'll repeat if it wasn't for Association Football, Rugby and Cricket clubs throughout the world, the foreign GAA clubs would have sod all venues for their games.)

It also makes no sense to have towns and cities trying to develop 2 (at least) grounds for various sports. I'll use Longford as an example, the money that has been put into both Flancare and Pearse Park seperately when we could've had one state of the art facility that would suit both codes is ridiculous.

Do ye not all think that the GAA will play this one carefully so as not to upset the hardliners in their organisation. They will have to been seen to play hard ball with the government and FAI on the issue of opening up the stadium. Everything done in Ireland is behind closed doors and anything that comes out in the media before hand is part of propaganda machines.

Croke Park will be opened up I believe. But the details of the deal done will be carefully released. No doubt the GAA will get a sweetner from the Government. Notice how the GAA can get good deals with the government while the FAI get shafted. Shows which org is the smarter

Out of interest does anyone know is it a condition of the government funding for the redevelopment of LR that it be made available for GAA matches?

While I see where the angry posters are coming from, I wouldn't go in for that level of criticism. The GAA own Croker and have done for decades. They have no obligation to open Croker to soccer or rugby, that is the crucial point. They may have received millions of our money but they aren't obliged to - that's just a fact. The GAA has done nothing but look after its own interests and one has to ask why they should open up their ground to sports with which they compete for attention on a daily basis? Especially when the FAI have done absolutely nothing to build their own...I know all the plans for Eircom Park and the Abbotstown mess but if the FAI had any level of cop, they could have started their own. Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Dotsy

Out of interest does anyone know is it a condition of the government funding for the redevelopment of LR that it be made available for GAA matches?

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as mentioned above... it will be suitable for and available to the GAA

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Originally Posted by Donal81

Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.

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Here are two of many reasons why; facilities for fans outside Croker, no lights on in the toilets in Casement, virtually everything that I have seen about Clones; the benches, the catering the general kip that this stadium is.

Secondaly the 'All Ireland' hurling championships is contested between two out of four Provinces (with occasional interest from Galway)

The GAA IMO should be humble enough to realise for the good of the fans of its sports around the country that it needs to accept and use the extra funding that football and rugby rent would give it to invest in their comfort and enjoyment, to give them decent facilities beyond D3 and give them a genuinely competive hurling championship to watch. However unfortunately the GAA and humility do not seem to go together. The great national sporting organisation of Ireland seems more interested in getting as much out of the tax payer as possible without ever taking their sporting interest (whether it be GAA, Football or Rugby) into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Donal81

Especially when the FAI have done absolutely nothing to build their own...I know all the plans for Eircom Park and the Abbotstown mess but if the FAI had any level of cop, they could have started their own. Why should the GAA feel obliged to open up the ground? Like I said, I do follow the odd GAA match but soccer is my first love so I'm not a blinkered GAA fan. I'm just trying to see it from their side. Why blame them for it? FAI/Government's fault, as usual, IMO.

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Make up your mind, either the FAI have done nothing or they tried with eP and were fooked over by Bertie? You can't just write off the fact that the FAI had plans that needed some Government support, which the Government refused to give as it wanted the FAI to use it's own white elephant. There are many things the FAI are to blame with regard to football in this country, and god knows I'm one of their biggest critics, but they can't be blamed for this IMO.

The GAA have an 80000 seater stadium that was for the most part Government funded, and which no doubt will turn out to be wholly Government funded. It's the Governments fault for attaching no conditions to all their investment, but that doesn't stop the GAA being bigots.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Remarkable. Then you know something that some in the FAI who conceded that the plan was pie in the sky don't...

It may well be your opinion. It didn't happen and ergo it simply cannot be 'FACT'. I don't think the FAI would ever have had the wherewithal to put a stadium together, hence the lies (just HOW many seats have you sold Mr. O'Byrne?) and recriminations about the whole project and the personalities involved. I was amazed they even got that cute little model thing together. And a video too? For how many millions? Well done boys...

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Era sure it's alright, they would have had 50 concerts and ice shows there every year, which were needed to keep the thing afloat. The plans for eircom Park were fantasy finance from the start.

The GAA are dead right in chancing their arm looking for €50m. If the situation was reversed I'd love the FAI and IRFU to do the same to the Grab All Assoc. The GAA got their finger out and managed to build a stadium. Fair play to them, even if they are biggots and double standards small minded so and so's.
They've called everyone's bluff and now have FAI/IRFU/Government by the short and curlies.

If only the FAI had that kind of vision.

The F.A.I. were persuaded/bullied into dropping Eircom Park in favour of Abbottstown. With hindsight now they should have gone ahead or at least demanded an agreement from the government in the event of Abbottstown falling thorugh that EP would be funded. It did appear to be the right decision at the time.

The GAA have done remarkably well to get so much government money and to build Croke Park. They don't have to open it up. It is their decision. That doesn't mean they are not bigots.

Most national stadiums were not built by national FAs but by local or national governments.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Remarkable. Then you know something that some in the FAI who conceded that the plan was pie in the sky don't...

It may well be your opinion. It didn't happen and ergo it simply cannot be 'FACT'. I don't think the FAI would ever have had the wherewithal to put a stadium together, hence the lies (just HOW many seats have you sold Mr. O'Byrne?) and recriminations about the whole project and the personalities involved. I was amazed they even got that cute little model thing together. And a video too? For how many millions? Well done boys...

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Was that when O'Byrne was trying to justify going ahead with eP after the Government said they were going to input no funding for it, due to this great stadium that's due to open in Abbotstown in the next year or two?

The FAI had no choice but to ditch eP with the promises bertie and co were making about Abbotstown revenue for the association. It was the only show in town once Bertie said no FAI funding. We've had this discussion before Conor, where you maintained that the Government couldn't be trusted to deliver it's promises, that the FAI should've known this, so the Government were exempt of any blame.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Make up your mind, either the FAI have done nothing or they tried with eP and were fooked over by Bertie? You can't just write off the fact that the FAI had plans that needed some Government support, which the Government refused to give as it wanted the FAI to use it's own white elephant. There are many things the FAI are to blame with regard to football in this country, and god knows I'm one of their biggest critics, but they can't be blamed for this IMO.

The GAA have an 80000 seater stadium that was for the most part Government funded, and which no doubt will turn out to be wholly Government funded. It's the Governments fault for attaching no conditions to all their investment, but that doesn't stop the GAA being bigots.

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When the FAI presides over the greatest boom both in interest in football in this country and also in revenue to be earned from football and all it can come up with is a few plans, that is doing nothing, in my book. Why the reliance on government support for everything?

I'm not sure what context you're referring to the GAA as bigots. If it's in relation to the ban that was there for years on soccer and rugby and also on members of the Northern security forces, you have a point. If it's in relation to Croker, I'd disagree with you. If the FAI were in the GAA's position, they'd be doing the exact same thing.

Soccer has no legal right to Croke Park as it's a GAA stadium and I can understand why GAA people get so bolshy when soccer fans put pressure on them to open it.

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Originally Posted by Donal81

I'm not sure what context you're referring to the GAA as bigots. If it's in relation to the ban that was there for years on soccer and rugby and also on members of the Northern security forces, you have a point. If it's in relation to Croker, I'd disagree with you. If the FAI were in the GAA's position, they'd be doing the exact same thing.

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It is because of the bans, but also on the fact that no GAA grounds are open to football and rugby. It is bigotry, as American Football is okay for their grounds, Special Olympics are okay for their grounds, Garth Brookes is okay for their grounds, Feile's are okay for their grounds, but essentially they ban two sports on the basis that they are British/Protestant.

And it's also hypocrisy, as I've said before the GAA relies on these so called foreign sports for their games to be played in other countries. Christ their happy enough to use Rugby and Football Clubs to train on in this country...