If the FAI sorted out a 'B' international...

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Originally Posted by barglee

unfortunately the case is that the best players from ireland end up abroad and in most cases are playing reserve team football. i think any player would choose to play for a premiership club in the reserve team over playing in EL

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I disagree but that's besides the point. The fact is I find it amazing that people will pick someone without a senior appearence to their name who they've more than likely never seen and have certinaly never seen at a halfway decent level over players in the EL who have done it against some of Europes best this season. Look at Owen Heary, had Luque in his back pocket not once, but twice and is able to get forward aswell, outstanding against Split and MOTM against Deportivo yet people leave him out for people like McShane or O'Dea, even Kelly who's played, what, three/four senior matches in his Spurs career? I just find that amazing more than anything else really.

For the starting 11, I'd personally pick...

Byrne Macken

Doyle Hoolahan S Reid McGeady

Harte McCarthy Couglan Heary

Stack

Harte wants a chance to prove himself and if he's not in Kerrs plans, he should be used here. If not, play Clarke. I'd have Elliot straight in the senior squad too, probably Flood too. Three Shels palyers but I'm biased, but I think performances against sides full of internationals like Split, Depor and Lille count for more than no appearences whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Doyle Hoolahan S Reid McGeady

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Doyle is much better in central midfield then on the left, he hasn't played on the left in a while actually. I'd swith Doyle with Hoolahan and probably even McGeady with Reid.

No senior player with Harte's experience should be asked to play a 'B' international. Nor should Delap for that matter. It would be nothing more than an insult. A player who has played at a world cup finals and currently plays in La Liga (Harte), and an established premiership performer who has been an international for years (Delap), asking them to play in a nothing reserve international? Some people here need their head examined!

As for the EL players - Owen Heary will never be a full international, cos he's not good enough. Neither is Wes Holohan, he's missed the boat unfortunately. Jason Byrne has been tried, didn't impress. Neither did Glen Crowe. At this moment in time, the two Cork lads Kearney and J O'Flynn are the only two really worth looking at. They've done it at underage level, so they have that going for them. Out of all the Shels players, Stuart Byrne impressed me the most, but again he's not internationl class. As far as i'm concerned, the 'B' squad should be full of real potential full internationals (i.e. young players) and full internationals who have a low cap count and need to be tried out in a certain position. There is no point putting a player in if you don't believe that player can become a full international - and that's why the likes of Partridge\McShane etc will get in instead of Heary etc. No token caps from me anyway.......

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

As for the EL players - Owen Heary will never be a full international, cos he's not good enough. Neither is Wes Holohan, he's missed the boat unfortunately. Jason Byrne has been tried, didn't impress.

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You must be joking. Jason Byrne didn't impress? He played, what, 30 seconds? He was hardly going to get a bleedin' hat trick was he? And if marking Luque, a 15m rated Spanish international, out of a match, twice, and getting man of the match against Deportivo isn't good enough to play for Ireland B than we obviously have a stunning array of talent we've kept hidden over the years.

Slash/ED, you're full of contradictions. You just said that you dont think players with a handfull of first team appearances do not merit a call-up ahead of EL players, yet you are of the opinion that Willo Flood deserves to go straight into the senior squad. Whatever about Stephen Elliot being ready, Willo Flood is nowhere near ready. If we were to put Willo out against the likes of Croatia(one of Europe's biggest teams physically) it could do him more harm than good.

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up. He is competing in one of Ireland's strongest positions. Despite Stephen Kelly's relative inexperience, he is in a different class to Heary. I believe Kelly may be the next big thing. He got injured in pre-season but I believe that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kelly will play in Germany 06. He will certainly be part of the squad.

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up.

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Exactly, and that is the way you have to look at it - objectively. Not heart over head. Yes he was superb in the european games, but he is not good enough for a full international call up, therefore there would be no point in playing him for Ireland 'B'.

As for Jason Byrne Slash/ED, it doesn't just come down to the game he played. He has spent time with the Irish squad. Management have had a close look at him, and their opinion is obviously that he is not good enough either. If he was, he'd be in the squads, wouldn't he? Why wasn't he in against the mighty Faroes if he is of international quality, seeing that Morrison was out? Because he's not good enough, that's why. Get over it!

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Slash/ED, you're full of contradictions. You just said that you dont think players with a handfull of first team appearances do not merit a call-up ahead of EL players, yet you are of the opinion that Willo Flood deserves to go straight into the senior squad. Whatever about Stephen Elliot being ready, Willo Flood is nowhere near ready. If we were to put Willo out against the likes of Croatia(one of Europe's biggest teams physically) it could do him more harm than good.

I agree that Owen Heary has been magnificent this season. However, he will never get an international call-up. He is competing in one of Ireland's strongest positions. Despite Stephen Kelly's relative inexperience, he is in a different class to Heary. I believe Kelly may be the next big thing. He got injured in pre-season but I believe that it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kelly will play in Germany 06. He will certainly be part of the squad.

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Well you may have a point about Flood but at least he has made an impact at senior level, some of the people being suggested have probably never been seen by the people suggesting them.

And as for your second point, I really don't see what the fuss is about Kelly. He's highly rated but has been average or poor whenever I've seen him. Maybe I've caught him on his off days but he's never really impressed me and I've seen a fair bit of him.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Exactly, and that is the way you have to look at it - objectively. Not heart over head. Yes he was superb in the european games, but he is not good enough for a full international call up, therefore there would be no point in playing him for Ireland 'B'.

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Based on what? The fact that he marked a Spanish international out of a match twice? :confused:

I understand where Slash/Ed is coming from. He's seem these players who are week in week out dismissed as crap out play players from "good leagues".

When City played now Swedish Champions Malmo they had a player called Alfonso Alaves. Ajax are trying to sign him for €5M. Over two legs George O'Callaghan totally over shaddowed him and €5M rated Alaves was totally marked out of two games by a part time player in Colin O'Brien.

Heary is a much better player than Kelly at the moment. Seen Kelly play a good few times for various Irish sides. Kelly will IMO get betterbut right now Heary is a better player. He wont play ever though, too many people ahead of him for the position.

People here talk about Willo Flood. What people dont realise is that he usually warms the bench for the U-21s. Liam Kearney keeps him there.

Some players we have are going to be unlucky. Laim Kearney for one. A constant on the left wing for the U-21s but dont think he'll ever win a senior cap, ahead of him most likely are; Duff, Reid, Kilbane, Kennedy, and many more. We are blessed with leftwingers for some reason.

Kevin Doyle/Jason Byrne/Glen Crowe will have chances because we just dont have many strikers.

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Originally Posted by Kevin77

Patrick Kohlmann (Borussia Dortmund)

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Anyone know if he's any good ? Dortmund are a pretty decent side, so chances are he must be fairly decent to make their squad.

I think B match's should be used to check only those players outside the current underage and senior set up who could potentially represent Ireland at some stage in the future. It shouldn't be used as an apeasement gesture to the eircom league or to to those players over looked for various reasons over the last number of years.

Some of the names bantered about previously are players at the peak of their playing careers, but still someway down the pecking order for selction in their positions, and rightly so. It would be a token gesture to cap them in a game such as this, knowing that when push came to shove they'd be overlooked when the time came.

My B team would be

1. Stack (Millwall)
2. Geary (Sheff Utd)
3. Clarke (Stoke)
4. Delaney (Hull)
5. Thompsaon (Forrest)
6. Lawrence (Sunderland)
7. Alan Quinn (Sheff Utd)
8. Thornton (Sundelrand.... For now)
9. Crowe (Bohs)
10. Macken (Man City)
11. Doyle (Cov)

Crowe gets the nod on two factors over the like of Byrne. His scoring in europe. And his superior goals to game ratio is sustained over a far longer period than his Eircom and lower English division league rivals. While Byrne has been top dog in the last two season, Crowe has maintained an impressive scoring rate despite niggling injury problems. In short, he's the best of a bad bunch.

not a lot of people here have picked up on keviin doyle(cork city) or daryl murphy(watertford) who are probably the eircom leagues best young talents

definitly would be worthy of a look at

They're still elligable at underage though.... The point here would be to provide a platform for those who aren't and are outside the current set up. But still in a position to offer something down the line....