TEL AVIV - Don't Hold your breath

Ireland v China see http://www.fatherryan.org/holocaust/Tibet/history.htm

Ireland v Iran see http://www.endgenocide.org/genocide/bahai.html

Ireland v Turkey. see (I like this country as we get more than one ethnic group getting killed with this mob)

http://www.diaspora-net.org/Turkey/kurds.html

http://www.armenianhouse.org/genocide.html

Ireland v Russia see http://www.gfbv.de/gfbv_e/docus/russ_e.htm

Ireland v Nigeria see http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/ga...in_nigeria.htm

Ireland v Yugoslavia (Now Serbia & Montenegro) see http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Links___Bibl...Links/G/g.html

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Originally Posted by Éanna

if you go to israel, you spend money in israel and you support the economy of a genocidal regime. south africa were kicked out of international sport for similar offences but because the US supports Israel its ok. it makes me sick, and I repeat, anyone knowingly giving even a cent to the israeli economy is supporting murder and genocide.

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I'm guessing you didn't go to USA94 (due to your D.O.B) however, if you didn't, have you ever been to the states/would you ever go?

Just a question - but I guess based on your strong beliefs you have not / will never set foot in the place?

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Originally Posted by Éanna

if you go to israel, you spend money in israel and you support the economy of a genocidal regime. south africa were kicked out of international sport for similar offences but because the US supports Israel its ok. it makes me sick, and I repeat, anyone knowingly giving even a cent to the israeli economy is supporting murder and genocide.

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Going to the Uk supports the war in Iraq then?

Buying Oreos drops another bomb on Baghdad?

Where does it end? A pint in Kerry fuels Jackie Healy Ray?

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Originally Posted by Éanna

never eaten them

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Bet you have eaten at Mc Donalds KFC or burger King though

Four more years of not drinking Jack Daniels for me I'm afraid. :( :(

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Originally Posted by Colm

I think it's too risky

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Did I hear correctly that this is the first bombing in Tel Aviv in more than a year?
There is virtually no homicide rate,so given that four died at the weekend the murder toll is probably between 4-10 for a whole year.In this case wouldnt it be more risky to go to Dublin for the game?

*edit* Forgot I already wrote this :o

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Originally Posted by lopez

Four more years of not drinking Jack Daniels for me I'm afraid. :( :(

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I'll bring you back a nice bottle of Middleton the next time I'm home.
You'll be grand, no worries. ;)

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Originally Posted by Peadar

I'll bring you back a nice bottle of Middleton the next time I'm home.
You'll be grand, no worries. ;)

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Actually my doctor says forget about four more years, try the rest of your life without Jack, Jim, James, Paddy, Wild Turkey, Four Roses and all my other 'liquid' pals. :D

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Originally Posted by Éanna

anyone knowingly giving even a cent to the israeli economy is supporting murder and genocide.

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What a ridiculous statement to make!

On that basis it's interesting to know that so many Irish fans who will be spending money following Ireland in Isreal support murder and genocide. :rolleyes:

You go from accusing loads of City fans of being hooligans after the Rovers game earlier in the season to now basically accusing a load of Irish fans of suppporting murder and genocide. :rolleyes:

Get a grip man, this football match has nothing to do with any political stuff and people are perfectly entitled to go and support their national football team in ANY country they see fit.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Ireland v China see http://www.fatherryan.org/holocaust/Tibet/history.htm

Ireland v Iran see http://www.endgenocide.org/genocide/bahai.html

Ireland v Turkey. see (I like this country as we get more than one ethnic group getting killed with this mob)

http://www.diaspora-net.org/Turkey/kurds.html

http://www.armenianhouse.org/genocide.html

Ireland v Russia see http://www.gfbv.de/gfbv_e/docus/russ_e.htm

Ireland v Nigeria see http://www.nigerdeltacongress.com/ga...in_nigeria.htm

Ireland v Yugoslavia (Now Serbia & Montenegro) see http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Links___Bibl...Links/G/g.html

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Weve played all except China over the past 3-4 years havent we ? To be honest you could include more in that list...

Croatia (hear they were not too nice during WWII, Ushtase and all that)
Portugal (well they didnt leave Southern Africa with a great reputation)
Switzerland (hear they were fond of banking dubious money for the Germans between 1933-45, much of which still resides in Switzerland unless im mistaken ?)
France (I hear they didnt cover themselves in glory in Indochina or Algeria).

Still I think the Cypriots and Faroese have better human rights records... just dont mention thewhales.

Think your being a bit hard on Eanna here.

For example as he points out there was a sporting boycott of South Africa during the period of their most dubious political practices, I certainly supported it, didn't most of the people on here? On issues like this, or Tibett or say Iraq's role in Kurdistan people do feel that there is injustice and that it will not be an issue that their democratic mandate covers, no Irish or Brit govt was ever going to rise or fall on these issues, so one of our only courses of action is to do something like refuse to visit or buy produce from these countries. A small form of direct action.

In fairness to anyone who belives that sport, and particularly international sport, and politics don't mix, it is well documented that they are tightly intertwined. Afterall why was there a boycott of South Africa in the first place?

The real fact of politics is that the most of us will pick and choose our battles, it just so happens that this is Eanna's. (Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn for you hombre.)

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Originally Posted by Guerzy

Pat your not going to israel so why dont you nip out of here back to the wife

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Oooo bitchy... Sorry for giving my point of view on a subject, I'll try to remember not to voice opinions on a discussion board in future. :rolleyes:

Anyway your argement that politics isn't important to supporters hardly stands up. Can you honestly tell me that politics don't matter to many of the fans of any of the following teams, St. Pauli, Lazio, Bolonge, Genoa, Barca, Bilbao, R. Madrid, Cliftonville etc... there is a massive list.

Secondly why did the Argentinian government (1978) or the Italian govt (1934) put so much time and effort making abosolutely postive that the world cup was won by the host nation? As I pointed out before it was cultural imperialism, give the people something to divert their attention and to show how dynamic and suucessful that their country can be under the dictatorship.

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Originally Posted by Guerzy

Listen forget all your points. Do you think we should boycott our national team in Israel.Yes or No?

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I'll fence sit here. Its an individual descision hombre, on balance, as I have pointed out i would not go even if the game were to be held outside Isreal. However this to me is an individual descision and if others want to go its up to them, I would respect their descion, I would expect people to respect mine.

Anyway why should you forget all the points and arguements, how else can you arrive at a rational descision with out weighing up all the facts in the first place. Now would you have gone to South Africa in the age of apartheid or do you think that the national team should take precedents over absolutely everything.

The match will be in Cyprus if all this trouble continues. Cyprus twice in a year, now there is a thought. :) :) :) ;)

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Originally Posted by Guerzy

Do you think we should boycott our national team in Israel.Yes or No?

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I'd have to say No

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

Now would you have gone to South Africa in the age of apartheid or do you think that the national team should take precedents over absolutely everything.

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I would not have gone but neither would the Irish team at that time as South africa was quite rightly isolated. Once the decision is made by the team/govt to take part in a game my feeling is that I should support them. I will also tell any israeli who cares to listen what i think of their current policies.

I do respect your decision Pat but lets remember that this thread was started with the purpose of giving us some un asked for "advice"

I also note the earlier point made about our Taoiseach shaking hands with Yugslav players who he had previously prevented from entering the country, total hypocracy.

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

...there was a sporting boycott of South Africa during the period of their most dubious political practices, I certainly supported it, didn't most of the people on here?

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The boycott of South Africa was totally different. SA was not just a nasty little state, but in the realms of international sport it proceeded to do two things that was guaranteed to put every country's noses out of joint (Ian Smith's Rhodesia excepted). Firstly it sought to discriminate who got into its own sides on the basis of colour (or sometimes not if you compare the skin tone and hair colour of some SA 'coloureds' with some of the master race). This was bad enough until, secondly, it sought to do the same to other people's sides. SA were already kicked out of the IOC by the time they started telling the MCC who not to send out to play for them (the Basil D'Oliveira case). To their disgrace, only the right-wingers running rugby decided otherwise, of which the IRFU were just as culpable.

Not since the third Reich had this happened. Not even when discrimination was a stated government policy of the Stormont junta did the IFA follow this course. Israel does not seek apartheid in its sporting teams. It has no apartheid in the elections aswell, although discrimination is another matter. Israeli Arabs (those living within Israel proper) are entitled to vote and get picked to play for Israel. Two of them played against us in 1984, one of them even scoring.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Still I think the Cypriots and Faroese have better human rights records... just dont mention thewhales.

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Take a visit to the border partitioning Cyprus and you'll get groups pestering you not to go to the other side holding up pictures of the other's deeds. As for the Faroes, them and Iceland and Norway are nothing but a bunch of mammal slaying f*ckers. They're almost as bad as...erm... :o ...the Spanish with their bullfighting.

Ok, I'm not very politically minded and for me personally politics plays no role in sport (although I understand it has and does). I completely support any Irish fan who would decide not to attend a game based on their political beliefs and people have got to do what THEY feel is right and stand by it! Does it make it you an less of a supporter if you make a polictical stance & watch a game from TV instead of travelling? I know my support never wains whether I'm at a game or not and I feel most of the individuals here are the same.

I'm far more concerned with supporters who have access to home match tickets, can afford to go and then choose not to attend attractive fixtures like Canada, USA & Faroes at Lansdowne because they don't feel like it, or 'it's gonna be crap' , or it's a little bit chilly out! They should burn in hell....!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I think anyone who doen't go to the Israel Away game should be refused tickets for future home games. :p

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Originally Posted by lopez

The boycott of South Africa was totally different. SA was not just a nasty little state, but in the realms of international sport it proceeded to do two things that was guaranteed to put every country's noses out of joint (Ian Smith's Rhodesia excepted). Firstly it sought to discriminate who got into its own sides on the basis of colour (or sometimes not if you compare the skin tone and hair colour of some SA 'coloureds' with some of the master race). This was bad enough until, secondly, it sought to do the same to other people's sides. SA were already kicked out of the IOC by the time they started telling the MCC who not to send out to play for them (the Basil D'Oliveira case). To their disgrace, only the right-wingers running rugby decided otherwise, of which the IRFU were just as culpable.

Not since the third Reich had this happened. Not even when discrimination was a stated government policy of the Stormont junta did the IFA follow this course. Israel does not seek apartheid in its sporting teams. It has no apartheid in the elections aswell, although discrimination is another matter. Israeli Arabs (those living within Israel proper) are entitled to vote and get picked to play for Israel. Two of them played against us in 1984, one of them even scoring.

Take a visit to the border partitioning Cyprus and you'll get groups pestering you not to go to the other side holding up pictures of the other's deeds. As for the Faroes, them and Iceland and Norway are nothing but a bunch of mammal slaying f*ckers. They're almost as bad as...erm... :o ...the Spanish with their bullfighting.

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Yes, but surely the ban of SA was also a way of the international community to show a solid front on its disapproval of the apartheid system (or am I being to idealistic here?) something that would prove far more difficult to do in the field of economics. It was also something that would directly affect white South Africans as they would see their beloved cricket and rugby teams isolated therefore using sport to show the population of a country that their political system was an anathema to right thinking people of the world.

I suppose as a vegetarian I should also be boycotting the Faroes Islands too, its going to get to a stage where I will need to get my mum and dad recognised as an international state so that I will be able to watch Ireland play with a clear conscience. :D