New Irish Management Team- Challenges

Oh, I'm not arguing with you, I'm backing you up in the sense that a player going on a few loans isn't necessarily being groomed for a career at a lower level. I'm not sure how Townsend's loans went either but his appearance stats look pretty good, with a couple of dips when he stepped up to Championship level. Going back to the Aston Villa comparison, Samir Carruthers and Jack Grealish have been more or less ever-present at League One level, while Graham Burke struggled to make the Shrewsbury line-up, which suggests Lambert might have to ease Burke in more steadily while the other pair could be ready for a jump sooner.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Oh, I'm not arguing with you, I'm backing you up in the sense that a player going on a few loans isn't necessarily being groomed for a career at a lower level. I'm not sure how Townsend's loans went either but his appearance stats look pretty good, with a couple of dips when he stepped up to Championship level. Going back to the Aston Villa comparison, Samir Carruthers and Jack Grealish have been more or less ever-present at League One level, while Graham Burke struggled to make the Shrewsbury line-up, which suggests Lambert might have to ease Burke in more steadily while the other pair could be ready for a jump sooner.

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Fair enough.

Do you agree with a talent like Grealish being sent to a place like Notts County, club in turmoil at the a*se end of L1 surrounded by absolute brutes in footballing terms ? I wonder if a move similar to what Man U used to do and send players to Antwerp would maybe benefit him more?


Bamford is the one to really watch at MK Dons, he has way too much for the level by the looks of it and King said we were speaking to him I'm sure about coming back into the Ireland fold again.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Fair enough.

Do you agree with a talent like Grealish being sent to a place like Notts County, club in turmoil at the a*se end of L1 surrounded by absolute brutes in footballing terms ? I wonder if a move similar to what Man U used to do and send players to Antwerp would maybe benefit him more?


Bamford is the one to really watch at MK Dons, he has way too much for the level by the looks of it and King said we were speaking to him I'm sure about coming back into the Ireland fold again.

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How well did United's link with Antwerp work out? O'Shea, Evans and Gibson came through, which I suppose is a decent haul from 30+ players, but it's still a low percentage. I'd be in favour of more players being sent outside of England but that doesn't seem to be the done thing. Arguably, going to League One and playing a bit of football on the ground is preferable to being sent to the dogfight of the Championship.

Bamford probably fancies his chances with England now. Grand if he decides to throw his lot in with us but he's a hot property now.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I also have lots of interesting things to say about archaeology.

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Just as long as it's better than your 'comedy'...
;)

Very encouragingly, the Examiner says the duo will be getting involved in coach education, working with the Dokter and the underage teams and keeping a close eye on the League of Ireland.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/i...ty-248673.html

Exactly what I was hoping for.

Speaking of the LoI, what a Cup Final. I was watching the highlights on YouTube and thought it looked and sounded fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

How well did United's link with Antwerp work out? O'Shea, Evans and Gibson came through, which I suppose is a decent haul from 30+ players, but it's still a low percentage. I'd be in favour of more players being sent outside of England but that doesn't seem to be the done thing. Arguably, going to League One and playing a bit of football on the ground is preferable to being sent to the dogfight of the Championship.

Bamford probably fancies his chances with England now. Grand if he decides to throw his lot in with us but he's a hot property now.

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Article here on that, out of date now but interesting nonetheless.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...ntwerp-loanees

O'Shea, Gibson, Evans, Shawcross, Higginbotham, Danny Simpson, Frazier Campbell, Sylvain Ebanks-Blake, Craig Cathcart the more notable ones. All went on to have average to good careers in Championship or Premiership.

Well, they're hardly going to take the Trap stance re.the domestic game.
They can look as hard as they want;the cupboard is still relatively bare.

Hopefully they stick around long enough to have a positive effect on the youth, 5-10 years from now, though have my doubts they'll do much good.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Well, they're hardly going to take the Trap stance re.the domestic game.
They can look as hard as they want;the cupboard is still relatively bare.

Hopefully they stick around long enough to have a positive effect on the youth, 5-10 years from now, though have my doubts they'll do much good.

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that's intresting. I'm more out of touch with the domestic game than I have been for 5 or 6 years. Around the time the Euro games were going well and doyle/dillon/hawkins/fahey etc moved back across. i can't believe there are no further talented players in Ireland right now. Appreciate the problems are probably still as wide ranging and more complex that simply promoting a couple of young guys to the squad on occaision isn't going to do it.

but it couldn't hurt and in my view the role should have some impact on the state of the domestic game- future planning if you will. Especially as MoN and RK should have the interest/clout/knowledge to make some interesting suggestions. Or at worst take good suggestions from those who know better and give them the publicity they need.

As for the team I'm getting the impression folk are less worried about defence and goals but more curious as to what the front 6 will be and the formation... In my view its a rotating front 6 taken from about 8/9 players depending on the opposition. A big ask perhaps but 4 of those will be the same mostly(mccarthy, mcgeady, An other CM, brady) and then 2 from hoolahan, long, an other striker
- thus limiting the variation in the foundation but being flexible in application..

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Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

As for the team I'm getting the impression folk are less worried about defence and goals but more curious as to what the front 6 will be and the formation... In my view its a rotating front 6 taken from about 8/9 players depending on the opposition. A big ask perhaps but 4 of those will be the same mostly(mccarthy, mcgeady, An other CM, brady) and then 2 from hoolahan, long, an other striker
- thus limiting the variation in the foundation but being flexible in application..

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That'd be a fair assessment I think.

I can see a 433 with brady, Walters/Long and Mcgeady as the forward players. Perhaps with Gibson, McCarthy and O'Brien in the middle

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Originally Posted by OMTY

Article here on that, out of date now but interesting nonetheless.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...ntwerp-loanees

O'Shea, Gibson, Evans, Shawcross, Higginbotham, Danny Simpson, Frazier Campbell, Sylvain Ebanks-Blake, Craig Cathcart the more notable ones. All went on to have average to good careers in Championship or Premiership.

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And isn't Higginbotham soon to become a fully-fledged (very) senior international? :p

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Originally Posted by youngirish

A team that regularly qualifies for tournaments and is at least is competitive in them. Sweden, Greece, Switzerland, the Czechs and Croatia all spring to mind. Why, what would you consider to be a decent international outfit? A team that's qualified for one tournament out of the last 6 and got trounced in every game?


We have one really decent Premiership player at the moment - Coleman. McCarthy and Gibson are two of the poorer players in the Everton team who are hardly one of the best teams in the league anyway. I'd be surprised if they finished any higher than seventh. Other than that we have a few players playing regularly for teams who are likely to be involved in battles towards the bottom end of the table.

As for your other point England are in no way, shape or form anywhere near
as technically able as any nation and if you really believe that to be true I'd suggest you need to go back and watch them playing against one of the true technically gifted European teams over the past few years.

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I've missed YIs smacks of realism round here, good to have good, rational and co-ordinated posts from you again.

Everton finished sixth last season. Finishing seventh doesn't make them one of the worst teams in the league.

I think if Everton finished 6th or 7th this season they would have to be pretty happy with that. And whilst I agree with YI on McCarthy and/or Gibson, if Everton finished the season with 3 Irish Internationals playing for a team at that level we would have to be happy as well. It would also force home the point about pretty decent players making up the foundations of our first 11. The PL this year is probably the most competitive its been, and bar the top two in Germany and Spain, they have shown to have the best average(number of teams competing at the highest level) of all the Leagues.

I don't see Gibson and McCarthy as both consistently starting and finishing for Everton throughout the season, regardless of any injuries.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I think if Everton finished 6th or 7th this season they would have to be pretty happy with that. And whilst I agree with YI on McCarthy and/or Gibson, if Everton finished the season with 3 Irish Internationals playing for a team at that level we would have to be happy as well. It would also force home the point about pretty decent players making up the foundations of our first 11. The PL this year is probably the most competitive its been, and bar the top two in Germany and Spain, they have shown to have the best average(number of teams competing at the highest level) of all the Leagues.

I don't see Gibson and McCarthy as both consistently starting and finishing for Everton throughout the season, regardless of any injuries.

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McCarthy's completed 90 minutes for Everton for the last five games in a row, and has already played more minutes than Pienaar, despite only moving to Goodison Park at the end of August. Since breaking into the first team, he's played only two minutes less than current cause celebre Ross Barkley, 20 minutes less than Gareth Barry and 30 minutes less than Kevin Mirallas. Last season, under the same manager, he was only substituted twice.

So, I'm damn sure he's going to be consistently starting and finishing for Everton, injuries or suspensions excepted.

Both. As in together, as in concurrently.

That's a theory which won't be tested for a good while and pointless, considering Gibson has just had acl surgery.
If they were both fit, would they not be both starting for us, in our dream team?

Young Irish's point is that we are crap and don't expect too much. Crap as we were, we are 2nd seeds in the draw. Seeing as the team lost faith and lost that connection with Trap in his 3rd campaign and didn't meet standards set in the first 2 campaigns, there's not that much needed to improve upon to qualify for the Euros.
Noel King would get us qualified for the 2016 Euros. The task for the management team is to get us competitive against the first seed ranked teams.

We arent 2nd seeds yet.

I think you are over-estimating our ability to dispense of 3rd seeds and a tricky 4th seed.

Its not pointless, its related to the points made previously.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

We arent 2nd seeds yet.

I think you are over-estimating our ability to dispense of 3rd seeds and a tricky 4th seed.

Its not pointless, its related to the points made previously.

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True, we aren't 2nd seeds yet, the official announcement won't be made until after the play offs.

I thought you would be optimistic about qualifying for the 2016 Euros. Was it not you who made the point that we have many players playing in one of the top leagues in Europe and should be performing better than we did under Trap? Taking that a little - teeny weeny- step forward, if we perform similar as Traps's 1st 2 campaigns and a little better than the 3rd campaign, combined with the qualification criteria crucially easing, then it should be a cinch to qualify for the Euro 2016?
Or do you expect MON to have the squad performing worse that we did under Trap's first 2 campaigns?

No I agree with you in principle but I don't like the arrogance that it should be a cinch.

You of all people should know that nothing is straightforward as you think it should be with this Irish team.

Btw I have seen enough of Samaras to know that he is a donkey with a half decent touch 20% of the time.