Europa League

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

I think it'll be the G16 that'll become tghe irrelevance.

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It's already been disbanded. I think they struck a deal with UEFA wrt player release for internationals and a change in the international calendar, and has been replaced by the European Club Association, with K-H Riuminigge as President. They have flexed their muscle threatening another breakaway when the current agreement with UEFA about the shape of European football ends in 2014. I think they used corruption at FIFA and lack of initiative by UEFA in trying to effect change as the excuse to make their point. Something like that anyway, I can't really remember.

Clearly the big clubs would love to have more control and they would love to try and further subordinate international football. It remains to be seen whether the EU would allow the necessary ingredients for a breakaway league, such as collective media rights selling etc. I won't repeat it here, but I explained why the EU, via the ECJ, has allowed such cartel-like behaviour to date in the FFP thread.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It's already been disbanded. I think they struck a deal with UEFA wrt player release for internationals and a change in the international calendar, and has been replaced by the European Club Association, with K-H Riuminigge as President. They have flexed their muscle threatening another breakaway when the current agreement with UEFA about the shape of European football ends in 2014. I think they used corruption at FIFA and lack of initiative by UEFA in trying to effect change as the excuse to make their point. Something like that anyway, I can't really remember.

Clearly the big clubs would love to have more control and they would love to try and further subordinate international football. It remains to be seen whether the EU would allow the necessary ingredients for a breakaway league, such as collective media rights selling etc. I won't repeat it here, but I explained why the EU, via the ECJ, has allowed such cartel-like behaviour to date in the FFP thread.

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Sorry Stutts, I only referred to the G16 as AB had also and chose for simplicity to continue to use it.
You're right about everything as you wrote it about the changes in the Intl calendar etc.

I would like to see the ECA to continue to flex their muscle and then pull it. Intl football is football for me. Sure I love Shels and I watch league and cup football from around the world but I would trade all of that for Ireland at a World Cup or hearing Amhran na bhFiann at a tournament like last summer. Nothing comes close to that for me.

Football will die when Intl football dies.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Football will die when Intl football dies.

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While I agree with that Bonnie, I think the view of international footie being the be-all and end-all is a pretty uniquely Irish thing. Most fans across the world put club (whether its their own league or their premiership team) football first.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think a European elite league would spell the end of UEFA's control of European football. UEFA needs the current configuration of football to retain its position. An elite top-16 league would be controlled by the clubs, shoving UEFA aside and jeopardising the link between elite professional football and international football. UEFA could become an irrelevance.

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It'd be boring in fairness. Any league will have 3 or 4 at the top. Where will the rest be then? The Champions League at least is built on clubs being at the top or near top in their respective leagues.

Whereas the Chumps Lge. is already dull.

Even 'top' teams like the Arse already have no chance...which makes an even bigger mockery of all those claims of Herr Wenger...

I disagree. It varies from year to year but I thought the CL was really interesting this year. Arsenal are uncompetitive because their football style is toothless, no more and no less.

Stu, I'm not sure about your statement. I think there is a big draw towards international football in lesser footballing nations or among fans of non-elite teams. There's probably more of a "temporary" element to it though, but every country and every sport has its bandwagon jumpers. Also, I don't think that many Irish think of international football as the be-all and end-all. I think most Irish think the EPL is.

It was interesting because two German teams reached the Final. But the general content or 'product' of modern top-flight football is anodyne in the extreme...

The Toto league (whatever it was called) was a conceptually doomed experiment. The Europa league is modestly moving from strength to strength as a bona fide B competition for clubs in leagues outside the mainstream.
There is some detraction when the likes of a club the size of Chelsea end up with the trophy but at least this year's final was competitive and the best in a while.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

It was interesting because two German teams reached the Final. But the general content or 'product' of modern top-flight football is anodyne in the extreme...

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No, the Madrid / City / Dortmund / Ajax group was interesting as were a few other groups and many of the knockout ties were interesting too. Barcelona v Milan was a great tie, all the QFs were good ties, the semis were both fascinating and the final was enthralling. I know some found it dull but pretty much any pundit or hack that I rate thought it was a great final. I honestly don't know how you could find this year's tournament dull. Maybe because there were no 400 year old territorial or religious disputes to be played out on a football pitch?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think the 3rd place rule is there to maximise tv money by keeping the group stages interesting and free of dead rubbers at the end of the group stages.

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This.

No way will UEFA even consider dropping the 3rd place slot as an entry into the Europa League. Keeps rounds 5 and 6 a bit more interesting in some groups even though plenty are decided after 3 games given the gulf in class in some groups.



Could only see a structural change in Europa being some what the answer since the above won't ever change. Would bringing in a format similar to the old 2nd phase of the CL be worth a trial? 8 CL dropouts + 16 Europa group winners/runners-up followed by 8 groups of 3 with winners in a quarter final? Or just too much of a structural change to Europa League? Or 8 CL + 24 group winners/runners-up with 8 groups of 4 then a last 16 (probably overkill and would dilute the comp more)

The smaller clubs might love extra matches but the bigger clubs would probably cry foul over too many extra games.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I honestly don't know how you could find this year's tournament dull. Maybe because there were no 400 year old territorial or religious disputes to be played out on a football pitch?

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What's the relevance of that to anything? Celtic had a great result v.Barca and in Moscow, but we're not part of the elite and probably never will be. As opposed to the 5-6 clubs who can and who usually win the CL and probably will dominate it for the foreseeable future.
For reasons of balance and perspective would prefer an 'alternative' winner eg. Dortmund but they could be lucky to even get to another Final in the next decade.

Anyway, the general concept is flawed, simply as they have to accommodate so many 'big' teams in the group stages, just for the TV money, most of whom, eg.Arsenal, Man.City have no chance of actually ever winning it.
All part of the general ethos of 'far far too much football' that is a plague in the modern game.

5-6 teams capable of winning it is more open than pretty much any football / rugby / GAA competition I can think of.

A finalist must play 13 games. I don't think that's too much. Personally I think that the domestic leagues are the ones that are a few games too long, and I think that the Europa league is the one that's too long. I think the CL ebbs and flows but this year's vintage was very good in my opinion.

And you know full well what the other remark was about, as does everyone else who reads this site regularly!

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Originally Posted by Dermotron

This.

No way will UEFA even consider dropping the 3rd place slot as an entry into the Europa League. Keeps rounds 5 and 6 a bit more interesting in some groups even though plenty are decided after 3 games given the gulf in class in some groups.

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When it came in initially, there was two CL group stages. While I don't doubt the financial aspect behind the move. It was more fair initially that teams just missing the second group stage got a few games in the UEFA cup. The top 2 of the first CL stage were guaranteed another 6 games. When the Round of 16 came in to replace the second group stage, I don't think the backing was there then to cut the 3rd placed sides from dropping out. Partly due to the UEFA Cup being structured for 8 teams to come in at the UEFA Cup Round 3.

Couldn't find a EL thread for this year. After tonight's results, if Slovan Bratislava lose their final game away to Napoli, then they will take Rovers title for the worst performance by a side in EL Group Stages. Current Standing P5 W0 D0 L5 F1 A17 P0

Metalist also have no points but GD is only -6 and they've Lokeren at home in the final round so you'd expect them to pick up something.

I suppose a Bohs fan could only dream about the EL group stages :)
But talking about the worst ever, is the worst ever performance in the EL competition by a LOI team, the time Bohs were hammered 5-1 by that 2nd division team from the remote tip of Iceland?

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Originally Posted by geysir

I suppose a Bohs fan could only dream about the EL group stages :)
But talking about the worst ever, is the worst ever performance in the EL competition by a LOI team, the time Bohs were hammered 5-1 by that 2nd division team from the remote tip of Iceland?

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I'd say Longford amongst others could give us a run for our money... Was a shocking result though. Only downside of a great trip to a lovely spot.

Sure come back to us when an Icelandic side makes it ;)

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Originally Posted by geysir

I suppose a Bohs fan could only dream about the EL group stages :)
But talking about the worst ever, is the worst ever performance in the EL competition by a LOI team, the time Bohs were hammered 5-1 by that 2nd division team from the remote tip of Iceland?

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Pats going down 10-0 on aggregate to Zimbru was probably worse.

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Originally Posted by ger121

I'd say Longford amongst others could give us a run for our money... Was a shocking result though. Only downside of a great trip to a lovely spot.

Sure come back to us when an Icelandic side makes it ;)

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Thank you, but Charlie has already kindly extended an invitation. An Iceland club will surely break that EL play-off jinx, soon.

An awkward draw for Everton but not too bad. The other fixtures should suit them should they go through, some heavy hitters will be out. The all-Spanish and all-Italian ties stand out.


Everton(ENG) v Dynamo Kyiv(UKR)

Dnipro(UKR) v Ajax(NED)

Zenit(RUS) v Torino(ITA)

Wolfsburg(GER) v Internazionale(ITA)

Villarreal (ESP) v Sevilla(ESP)

Napoli(ITA) v Dinamo Moskva(RUS)

Club Brugge(BEL) v Beşiktaş(TUR)

Fiorentina(ITA) v Roma(ITA)

As a friend said to me: "I thought the UK was supposed to have a referendum before exiting Europe?".

Everton's defence now reminds me of Wigan's defence when they were in the Premiership. Hmmm.