Perception And Anti-Social Behavior in the LOIe

The stewarding at LOI games is a joke tbf, must stewards are just your average fan willing to help out with no experience or training and fair play to them for doing it but the gardai have a lot to answer for as I don't know how many times I've seen them just look at a drunken fan stagger by and say nah won't bother only for that same fan to be involved in something latter on. Pitch invasions (most of the time just 2 or 3 over excited individuals with no intent on doing harm) are becoming a regular event and the more people get away with it the more other elements will join in with the intent of causing harm like in Sligo the other night. Time for a big change in the way games are stewarded.

Agreed. Most stewards are doing their best but don't really have the ability to control this kind of thing. A big lump of a bouncer clobbering a few of these pups would be satisfying but you'd see clubs getting in legal trouble pretty quickly.
Surely it worth be a worthwhile investment for the FAI to fund, or at least heavily subsidise, training for stewards. Having properly trained security at grounds would give a lot of parents more confidence about bringing the whole family along.

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Originally Posted by Fivesilver

A big lump of a bouncer clobbering a few of these pups would be satisfying but you'd see clubs getting in legal trouble pretty quickly.

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It's a fine line - over agressive stewards can be part of the problem too.

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Originally Posted by Fivesilver

Having properly trained security at grounds would give a lot of parents more confidence about bringing the whole family along.

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I really don't see it as something that is stopping families attending tbh, or something that would encourage them to go. It'd be a handy response to people using it as an excuse to say "every steward is trained to x standard", but then they'd wheel out some other excuse.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

When it comes to reasons why the LOI isn't getting a very large audience, how big of one is this kind of thing? I know one or two people who swear off the league because of what they deem a "violent" or drunken element pervading (one lives in Cabra, and has had more than one bad experience around Bohs/Shams time), but how prevalent is that? Do people notice this as a cause for lack of engagement from some people? Is it on the increase?

And what can be done? Should LOI clubs start banning people from going to games for life? How enforceable is that, really? Is it a Garda issue or a stewarding one? Do other sports in Ireland have similar or worse issues with ASB?

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I'm sure the same person has no problem walking around in their English side's jersey if there was an incident at their ground this weekend.

While I understand your point, that's not the case with this particular person.

I think there seems to be a consensus that the problem is overblown by media who prefer a negative story when it come to LOI and that those claiming it affects their decision to attend LOI games are judging the league by an unfair standard when compared to other leagues/sports that is, their just excusing their lack of support for the home league.

I would agree that an increase in the standard of stewarding as opposed to relying on inefficient and frequently non-existent to Garda support, would do a lot to alter the perception some people have, but would it be fair to say that it wouldn't really get more people in the door (maybe a small few)? That's a depressing thought.

The was a huge Garda presence at Richmond Park last night. Fans were frisked on the way in and the away supporters were kept back at the end for a while. Guards were placed all around the ground, and the riot squad were outside in a minibus. Unbelievable but true, there was about six Gardaí with alsation dogs outside across the road from the entrance to the ground. The attendance was not give out, but my estimate would be that there was less than 2k people at the match. Do the FAI/St Patricks have to make any payment to the Gardaí for this type of operation? and another question does this type of security/hassle put some people off from going to games (I found it a bit offputting, but maybe I am unusual in that)

Probably the friendliest of the main Dublin derbies (between Shels, Rovers, Pats and ourselves) too. Richmond was easily my favourite Dublin and environs trip.

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Originally Posted by wonder88

The was a huge Garda presence at Richmond Park last night. Fans were frisked on the way in and the away supporters were kept back at the end for a while. Guards were placed all around the ground, and the riot squad were outside in a minibus. Unbelievable but true, there was about six Gardaí with alsation dogs outside across the road from the entrance to the ground. The attendance was not give out, but my estimate would be that there was less than 2k people at the match. Do the FAI/St Patricks have to make any payment to the Gardaí for this type of operation? and another question does this type of security/hassle put some people off from going to games (I found it a bit offputting, but maybe I am unusual in that)

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Pats have to pay for it and it's totally OTT, always like that for our Dublin Derbies and when Dundalk are in town. There was a small bit of hassle with Drogheda in our first game of the season so hopefully after a few incident free games since then it might ease up a little.

Looks like some the Drogs are facing charges and the feeling is that at least one is looking at time.

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Originally Posted by wonder88

The was a huge Garda presence at Richmond Park last night. Fans were frisked on the way in and the away supporters were kept back at the end for a while. Guards were placed all around the ground, and the riot squad were outside in a minibus. Unbelievable but true, there was about six Gardaí with alsation dogs outside across the road from the entrance to the ground. The attendance was not give out, but my estimate would be that there was less than 2k people at the match. Do the FAI/St Patricks have to make any payment to the Gardaí for this type of operation? and another question does this type of security/hassle put some people off from going to games (I found it a bit offputting, but maybe I am unusual in that)

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Oddly, my kids love when Shamrock Rovers and Drogheda come to Oriel Park.

In particular, my little daughter loves petting the police horses.

I wouldn't go too near the police dogs though. Nasty looking things.

If Pats had to pay for the Garda security last night then they must have made a big loss financially.

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Originally Posted by wonder88

If Pats had to pay for the Garda security last night then they must have made a big loss financially.

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I'd have thought they'd have an arrangement for the whole season and they'd have had this fixture accounted for anyway. Clubs don't pay the true cost of policing anyway, just a fee.

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

Pats have to pay for it and it's totally OTT, always like that for our Dublin Derbies and when Dundalk are in town. There was a small bit of hassle with Drogheda in our first game of the season so hopefully after a few incident free games since then it might ease up a little.

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There have been a few minor incidents ( mainly shape throwing and some stone throwing) at Pats / Bohs games in recent years but noting serious. Mainly kids acting hard and no justification for the OTT 'policing'. Ironically enough most of the pubs around would have mixed cutomer base (Bohs and Pats) which makes the situation on the street even more silly.

I find the Gardai in Dublin cause more hassle then they are worth. Overall our support is very placid and never any trouble in Dublin. For our game vs Pats there was around 20 Gardai around the ground but never any trouble with Pats and ourselves. Going into the ground getting searched they made a few remarks that was best ignored. In Dalymount I've noticed them trying to provoke a reaction from our fans many times but were ignored again. They seem to think all "soccer" fans are trouble.

Our local Guardians of the Peace didn't exactly cover themselves in glory at the Drogheda game either, telling stewards to let in a group the latter had identified as drunk and - correctly, as it turned out - likely to cause trouble.

Most hassle is caused by Green Street fantasist, it's hard to barstool hooliganism so they attach themselves to LOI clubs, I blame Elijah Wood, wasting fortunes on snide charlie makes them cross too.

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Originally Posted by PartySaint

Pats have to pay for it and it's totally OTT, always like that for our Dublin Derbies and when Dundalk are in town. There was a small bit of hassle with Drogheda in our first game of the season so hopefully after a few incident free games since then it might ease up a little.

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Didnt think the Garda presence in general around richmond was that severe for our visit. There were 4 to 5 garda standing in the corner of our section but that was due to the steward reporting that a few were drinking and smoking in the stand and refused to co-operate with the stewards requests to desist. There was a distinctive herbal smell at one point and resulted in quite a few youngster being searched. No police dogs/horses and only a couple of garda outside pre-match and we werent held back after. Had a great chat with some pats lads on the Luas on the way home. All pretty tame.

I am very impressed with Drogs handling of recent events. All clubs with the undesirable element should take note.

I too enjoy the large garda presence at Oriel as it give that big match feel, the whole town knows a game is on, strange reasoning in its own right.

Sort of related to this thread, recently I applied for a job with one of the firms that handle event stewarding in Limerick. I mentioned in the interview that I attended the LOI games in Thomond. The interview took a sudden swerve into a diatribe from the interviewer and, without them flat out saying it, it was made clear to me that football fans were considered a far more difficult prospect for stewards to deal with than rugby fans - there was certainly a very obvious distaste in their voice as they talked about soccer fans.

I've never witnessed or heard of any bad behavior from home or away LOI fans in Thomond, beyond some chanting some people might find offensive. So, I can only theorise that their opinions were based off a larger outlook on soccer fans in general. I still wonder how prevalent that perception is about the LOI, and what can be done to counter it.

It's nothing to do with reality in the LOI, and there's nothing the LOI can do to counter it. It's a social/class narrative further perpetuated by the massive PR/propaganda apparatuses of rugby and GAA.