Is this the weakest Irish team in memory?

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams.

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Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

And of those I count an optimistic 13 That may get into an Irish Trap squad.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

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Your list is very misleading. For example, for this season, Duff, Gibson and Steven Reid are not available for selection. Players like Enda Stevens and Marc Tierney are hardly future Ireland players. Jay Tabb is a bum. Robert Elliot has never played for us at the senior level.

They're your parameters CR.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report
I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams.

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Poor Jay Tabb. Does he at least pay it when he goes out drinking with his mates?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

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interesting list. Is it too much trouble to ask you to refine the list to players who have started 5 or more games each season?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

interesting list. Is it too much trouble to ask you to refine the list to players who have started 5 or more games each season?

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nope, pretty simple actually. The numbers after each player is their total number of starts in the Premier League that season, but note this is not their total starts for the season, e.g. Richard Dunne actually started 44 games in 2006-2007 including cup games
I worked out the average number of starts per player for the players listed, i.e. it does not include the games started by players with less than 5 starts

2006-2007(20)
Average starts: 22.5
Lee Carsley(38), Richard Dunne(38), Paddy Kenny(34), Steve Finnan(32), Stephen Hunt(28), Kevin Doyle(28), Kevin Kilbane(28), Matt Holland(27), Derek Geary(26), Stephen Carr(23), Shay Given(22), Damien Duff(20), Robbie Keane(18), John O'Shea(16), Stephen Quinn(15), Andy Reid(15), Stephen Ireland(14), Alan Quinn(11), Shane Long(9), Caleb Folan(8)

2007-2008(22)
Average starts: 22.18
Stephen Kelly(38), Stephen Hunt(37), Richard Dunne(35), Kevin Doyle(34), Lee Carsley(33), Kevin Kilbane(33), Robbie Keane(32), Stephen Ireland(31), Andy O'Brien(31), Steve Finnan(21), Paul McShane(20), Steven Reid(20), Daryl Murphy(19), Shay Given(19), Liam Miller(16), Joey O'Brien(15), Damien Duff(12), John O'Shea(10), Andy Reid(10), Anthony Stokes(8), Stephen Carr(7), Shane Long(7)

2008-2009(16)
Average starts: 23.5
Shay Given(37), Rory Delap(34), Stephen Ireland(34), Richard Dunne(31), Andy O'Brien(30), Robbie Keane(30), Damien Duff(28), Keith Andrews(27), Glenn Whelan(21), Andy Reid(20), John O'Shea(20), Liam Lawrence(18), Kevin Kilbane(18), Paul McShane(17), Daryl Murphy(6), Joey O'Brien(5)

2009-2010(29)
Average starts: 19.55
Richard Dunne(37), Shay Given(35), Stephen Carr(35), Rory Delap(34), Kevin Doyle(33), Damien Duff(30), Stephen Hunt(27), Marc Wilson(27), Paul McShane(26), Glenn Whelan(25), Kevin Foley(23), Keith Andrews(22), Steve Finnan(19), James McCarthy(19), Stephen Ward(18), Keith Fahey(18), Andy Reid(17), Stephen Ireland(16), Robbie Keane(15), Kevin Kilbane(15), Liam Lawrence(14), John O'Shea(12), David Meyler(9), Andy Keogh(8), Caleb Folan(7), Chris McCann(7), Stephen Kelly(7), Andy O'Brien(6), Darron Gibson(6)

2010-2011(22)
Average starts: 19.18
Stephen Carr(38), Richard Dunne(31), Rory Delap(31), Kevin Foley(30), Stephen Ward(27), Kevin Doyle(25), Jonathan Walters(25), Seamus Coleman(24), James McCarthy(23), Damien Duff(22), Marc Wilson(20), Keith Fahey(19), John O'Shea(18), Ciaran Clark(15), Stephen Hunt(14), Steven Reid(13), Glenn Whelan(12), Leon Best(9), Stephen Kelly(8), Stephen Ireland(6), Robbie Keane(6), Darron Gibson(6)

2011-2012(31)
Average starts: 20.9
Stephen Ward(38), Jonathan Walters(38), Marc Wilson(35), Paddy Kenny(33), James McCarthy(33), Shay Given(32), John O'Shea(29), Richard Dunne(28), Glenn Whelan(27), Kevin Doyle(26), Wes Hoolahan(25), Shane Long(24), Damien Duff(23), Anthony Pilkington(23), Steven Reid(21), Stephen Kelly(21), James McClean(20), Stephen Ireland(19), Rory Delap(18), Marc Tierney(17), Stephen Hunt(16), Leon Best(16), Seamus Coleman(14), Ciaran Clark(13), Darron Gibson(12), Kevin Foley(11), Keiren Westwood(8), Conor Sammon(8), Keith Andrews(8), Simon Cox(7), Robbie Keane(5)

2012-2013(22)
Average starts: 15.95
Jonathan Walters(27), James McCarthy(27), Ciaran Clark(25), Glenn Whelan(24), John O'Shea(23), Joey O'Brien(21), Wes Hoolahan(21), Anthony Pilkington(20), Damien Duff(19), James McClean(18), Shane Long(18), Alex Pearce(14), Ian Harte(13), Seamus Coleman(13), Darron Gibson(12), Jay Tabb(12), Marc Wilson(10), Stephen Ireland(9), Steven Reid(8), Noel Hunt(6), Enda Stevens(6), Stephen Kelly(5)

Interesting that every player who's played this season has made a league appearance, something none of the other years come close to replicating. Perhaps a result of smaller squads in the Premier League.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Interesting that every player who's played this season has made a league appearance, something none of the other years come close to replicating. Perhaps a result of smaller squads in the Premier League.

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not sure I follow you there, are you saying that there are no players in a Premier League squad who have only made cup appearances, like say Pantilimon at Man City who's only played in their cup games?
Burke at Villa has only played in League Cup games for them, he's been on the bench in three league games, but hasn't come on

You're right, I completely misread the numbers.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

They're your parameters CR.

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That's my whole point. These players aren't starting for Premiership teams. A starter isn't someone who has started one of thirty-eight matches.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

That's my whole point. These players aren't starting for Premiership teams. A starter isn't someone who has started one of thirty-eight matches.

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how many games do they need to start before they are considered a "starter"?

in CRs defense "are they first choice" is what i think he is getting at.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

how many games do they need to start before they are considered a "starter"?

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That's a very subjective thing, but I don't understand how anyone could consider Jay Tabb a "starter" for Reading despite the fact that he's likely to have started 12 out of their 38 matches by the end of the season. I mean, he hasn't played for them in any capacity for months and he's on loan now to a Championship side. Now, Marc Wilson has also started 12 matches for Stoke so far but I would consider him a starter because he was out with injury and that's why he missed so many games. There's more to life than simply stats.

The fact is, five to ten years ago we had players who were doing the business week in and week out for top sides like Chelsea, Spurs, and Manchester United. Now, James McCarthy is about the only player we have who one could argue could compete for a starting place with any top-six EPL team.

When were Chelsea and Spurs top sides?

Uh, Chelsea won the Champions League less than a year ago.

I meant in the past decade like you stipulated. Chelsea have been a top team since Duff was in the side, granted, but Spurs were always a second or third-tier English team while we had players there. Saying we had players at top teams like Spurs a decade ago is about as useful as saying we had players at Manchester City a decade ago. All credit to Stephen Kelly but he wasn't a great player when he was starting for Spurs and he's not a great player now.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I meant in the past decade like you stipulated. Chelsea have been a top team since Duff was in the side, granted, but Spurs were always a second or third-tier English team while we had players there. Saying we had players at top teams like Spurs a decade ago is about as useful as saying we had players at Manchester City a decade ago. All credit to Stephen Kelly but he wasn't a great player when he was starting for Spurs and he's not a great player now.

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We had Robbie Keane, Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly at Spurs. Spurs then were a whole lot better than the LA Galaxy, Nottingham Forest or Reading are now.

We had players like Roy Keane at Manchester United, Steve Finnan at Liverpool, Damien Duff at Chelsea. Those were the top three sides in 2005-06. We have no players at these clubs now.

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Originally Posted by Colbert Report

We had Robbie Keane, Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly at Spurs. Spurs then were a whole lot better than the LA Galaxy, Nottingham Forest or Reading are now.

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So? Spurs weren't a top team. What's happened there is we had three players at a middling Premier League club who have since declined as players.

Over the past five years, the only players we've had at top teams were Keane (for one unsuccessful season), John O'Shea (important player until his legs started to go), Gibson (bit-part player) and Brady (one substitute appearance).