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Again, not the people I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
If people can't work out why others can't/don't/won't go to a meaningless midweek fixture in the middle of an economic depression, they're even more stupid than they look...
At best people will prioritise. At worst they won't come at all.
I shouldn't be "cynical" but...Quote:
replace "cultured" with "synical" or "unrealistic"
Im the exact same as this. Was there again last night and try to get to as many games as I can, no matter how poor we are/hard to watch. But the decisions that Trap makes sometimes are indeed baffling. McShane instead of O'Brien is an excellent example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
I would prefer it any day to John O'Shea or Ciaran Clark or Paul McShane trying to play the ball out of defence. We gave away many of our goals in Poland by conceding possession in our own half. A team should play to its strengths and if playing the long ball rather than trying to play out from defence is it, then that's the way it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry crumb
Never once have I gone to a game where my side is playing to be entertained. I go to see it win. I am one of the "not many" you mention above. Success brings the fans as the Jack Charlton era shows. Nice if there is free flowing football but that is a bonus. If I am watching two teams on TV that I don't follow playing that stuff, sure I'd switch over since I am watching that game to be entertained. Following my own team has NOTHING to do with entertainment.
Congratulations to the FAI on their decision to choose Poland as their opponents. 43k was probably beyond their expectations but it was a very enjoyable game with the right result, new caps to look at, a few ranking points and money in the coffers. I think they had too much going on at half time though. A presentation to the winner of the LoI goal of the season, a match between some huge kids and some very small kids (the water in one of the schools must have more vitamins), a penalty shoot out between the rival fans, and the subs from each team warming up.
would you stop. we brought 30,000 plus to Poland in the middle of a recession yet "fans" wont pay €20 to view a game at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
tell ciaran clark and greg cunningham, two players that impressed last night, that it was a "meaningless" friendly
Times are just different now. There is so much for people to do, fly off here there and everywhere a couple of times a year even on modest wages (or dare I say no wages!). We also have a sports overload with every match (practically) now available to us on TV. There isn't really a buzz about soccer internationals now and it isn't nearly the treat is was back in the 80's or 90's when there was little else to do. Times change and I don't think 100% employment would have made much difference to the crowd last night, nor would Trap's tactics.
Would you stop, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Poland was a 'one off', whereas last night was yet another tedious home friendly. Great for Clark and Cunningham, so what?
It didn't need to be in Dublin and it's not the price but the totally flawed and tired concept of bleeding dry the interest of the Irish soccer public...
oh we agree on that ok. Poland was indeed a one off for many fickle Irish event junkies who couldnt really care that much about the teams fortunes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
speak for yourself. I actually enjoyed last nights match for its decent tempo, good colourful atmosphere and getting to see a couple of our new players play well. you know, the kind of things that one doesn't get to truly appreciate while watching on tv, or indeed another match altogether
I would agree with posters who feel that Trap has drained the enthusiasm of a significant proportion of the Irish football public. People want to see Ireland playing their best 11 and very rarely if ever under Trap has that been the case. Wilson and Coleman should have been our two full backs for the past 2 years at least..James McCarthy should have been a regular for the past 2 years also to the point where he should now be a fulcrum of the team and a leader in the dressing room...very good players like Long who have class should've been utilised far more. These are just examples of his selection policy. His prevailing of the likes of Ward, McShane and Green is incredible to say the least (I would admit I was delighted when Ward came in for Killer).
For me, this makes the Irish public in significant numbers turn away from going to see the team play live at Lansdowne. Other Irish fans are event junkies (those there for Armenia and Estonia in the last campaign when the attendance was good or in Poland). These people are found in every sport and in every country. It is the alienation of the first group that is worrying and whoever the next Irish manager is, it is this group that will need to be won over if we are to get to a point where we can fill the stadium game by game for games.
Trap has done some very good things for Irish football and perhaps his biggest legacy when he leaves (barring a disaster in the next 8 months) is getting us a decent seeding for Euro 2016. He leaves us in a far healthier position than Stan did and with the very decent batch of younger players that we have in the team and coming through, I have high hopes for the future.
Know lots of people in Poland, who don't have the time or inclination to go to meaningless games, due to more pressing domestic commitments...
Who can blame them? Regardless of how 'colourful the atmosphere...
I am really glad I went last night. A great colourful atmosphere, which you won't get at many other games this year in Ireland or over in the 'Irish quarter' of Manchester. As one who goes to GAA games as well, my answer to the question is the most common one; that us Irish are mostly more of an "event junkie" type of supporters compared to sport fans in some other countries. Fair play to John Delaney for getting Poland over. It was more than just a sporting ocassion and to see the flags (Polish) from all over the country in the stadium and also later the buses heading up the quays full of fans heading back to all-corners; Mallow, Mountbellow, Sligo, Limerick, Galway, Wexford just some of the places I noticed was something that will live long in the mind. Also it was great to see two Galway lads playing for Ireland. While rugby is dominant down here at the moment, I have a feeling that it is more of a manufactured support and taping into the event junkie culture, and that there is more of a real grá for the old soccer around Galway city and county. Finally I agree fully that the style of play of a team has nothing to do with the level of support that teams gets.
While I agree with your sentiment, the 1980s and 90s weren't the dark ages you know. We had discos, Ibiza, Match of the Day and the Big Match, even colour tv ;) We even had computers of sorts!! What we didn't have was the wall to wall sport we now have on TV or Barcelona, Manchester United on the tv every third day and Champions League etc. You're correct. The buzz is gone from international football unless we qualify for a tournament. Mind you if we played England the place would be sold out twice over to see Ashley Cole and Wayne Rooney.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Don't forget the Betamax :)
People today just cannot imagine just how sophisticated the social networking was in the 80's and early 90's. There was an evolved almost telepathic mode of communication.
You had to tune in, in order to figure out where a friend (especially one that owed you money) might be drinking before the game and if he changed his mind, what were the alternatives. Imagine a world where there was no internet or mobile phones, most of today's generation would be wandering around like lost zombies 'I'm bored'.
I have a lot of old Irish games on Betamax. I suspect the quality is now very poor even if I went to find someplace that could transfer them to disc. I wasn't too sure whether to choose betamax or VHS at the time. Always end up making the wrong choice.
Interesting that your comparison between then and now relates to drink before a game! :)
Folk need to get it through there heads that Ireland has an extremely small supporter base when it comes to football. Theres a really small hardcore support.
The remaining majority who choose to/Choose not to make up the numbers are the folks who will attend whatever they feel is the best form of entertainment for their buck, be it a Rugby grand slam decider, an all ireland semi final, a U2 concert, an Obama singalong on Arthurs Day or whatever captures their imagination.
Its an event culture, and the idea of following your side through thick and thin is not something Irish folk seem to be able to grasp. Its alot easier to support English clubs from our side of the water too, the majority of Liverpool/United fans from ireland have not ever been to a game.
And these are the folks who get uppity when their loyalty is questioned, "not going to a game doesn't make me any less of a fan" etc... etc.....
The vast majority of Irish fans are event junkies, seduced by the big day out where they have been whipped into a frenzy. And they usually enjoy the banter in the pub afterwards about (insert event) more than anything else.
Its a completely different mindset to that of someone who follows their team week in week out, win, lose or draw.
Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.
Hmm, most of the fans I know aren't 'event junkies', though simple economics and domestic commitments mean most have to pick and choose their games...
There were tickets available the other night for 20euro. Granted times are hard with bad economic conditions, and the FAI should do more on prices in light of this fact, but still recent attendance at Ireland matches support the "event junkie" theory explained by Strongbow10 I think.
Do you go/have you been to many games, to allow you to reach this ground-breaking conclusion...
excuses, excuses, excuses...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
we had almost 20% unemployment in 1990 (and played even harder to watch football than now) but it didnt stop people queuing up from the early hours for tickets to the sold out USSR and Wales friendlies for example. i would suspect domestic situations existed then also!
I'm in my mid-40s and have been going to Ireland games for well over 30 years. There have always been periods of apathy so I wouldn't be too alarmed. I think the public at large is utterly disullusioned with the way we play. Many of us would go regardless but I don't think that holds across the board.
At the other extreme there's definitely a big bandwagon element to the trophy games and the tournaments. Travel, cost and economics are obviously factors, and so too is the profile of rugby union which is capable of delivering a degree of success, context, feel-good factor and quality (debatable after yesterday!), that the Irish public needs to sustain interest.
I bought the Sindo yesterday to read about the Promissory Notes deal and the pictures of people like Fingers Fingleton and Sean Dunne at the rugby said it all to me - it's been the "be seen at" event for these types for a while now. If we get an exciting and successful football team again, the bandwagon will return.
To answer the original question - "where were the berst fans in the world?": you'd have to tell me who the best fans in the world are before I answer that. I'm sure they were nowhere near the Aviva though.
I think it's unfortunate for us that the format of the rugby lends itself better to bandwagon jumping than football. Only 2/3 massive home games a year, always against top opposition, and with a chance we might win. I don't think rugby would have such great attendances if we had a two-year cycle, with most of the games being against the likes of Portugal and Namibia.