FAI refuse to sanction tournament in Thomond Park.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

So Ireland go out of the 2020 championships early, and in a quarter final Latvia play Georgia at Aviva. Has to be blocked too, right? According to that logic.

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I don't think you understand logic (based on that statement)

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Going down this road the FAI are opening themselves and football in Ireland into some difficult times.
Should the English FA not have blocked non-english national teams play international friendlies on their soil - likewise the Belgians (Ireland vs Italy). We can't have it every way.

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In the English examples, and the Belgian example, the games were held in football grounds. SO at the very least, they profited there.

In the Limerick example, the people to profit would be the holding company behind a Rugby ground, a private company and several foreign clubs. Perhaps you'd like to show me how Irish football would benefit?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I don't think you understand logic (based on that statement) Kind of do, but your next part raises questions.


In the English examples, and the Belgian example, the games were held in football grounds. SO at the very least, they profited there.

In the Limerick example, the people to profit would be the holding company behind a Rugby ground, a private company and several foreign clubs. Perhaps you'd like to show me how Irish football would benefit?

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By your "logic" Irish football, and rugby, lost massively by having full houses for matches at Croke Park, right?

I do believe that this is a dangerous precedent being set down by the FAI, it's using/abusing it's power to sanction matches, when a case could be made that the more big events held in Ireland the better. If a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight were scheduled to be held in Croke Park/Aviva/Thomond this summer, with a completely non-Irish undercard, I have a sneaking suspicion the media wouldn't allow them to think twice.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I do believe that this is a dangerous precedent being set down by the FAI, it's using/abusing it's power to sanction matches, when a case could be made that the more big events held in Ireland the better.

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Exactly, it's complete rubbish. Every game of football here shouldn't require some direct benefit to the Irish game. If a private company wishes to invite foreign clubs to play a match here then I can't see the problem. If it generates a profit then all the better and well done. If that's what people wish to see then let them pay and attend, if not, the venture will be a failure and the organisers will take a hit.

I'd prefer Irish football were attented and supported through its own merits and not through restricting competition. Very small minded, it would remind you of De Valera's trade war.

Occured to me last night - How does honest John stand legally on this given his roles in both the FAI and the Aviva??

Like leave football out of it for a second, is this not a fella using his clout within one organisation he's involved with to stop a rival of the other organisation he's involved with from trading??

Possibly nothing wrong with it whatsoever but it seems a bit off to me??

Also does Celtic going public = Dermot Desmond being a bit miffed = a pain for the FAI??

We may be living in interesting times.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

By your "logic" Irish football, and rugby, lost massively by having full houses for matches at Croke Park, right?

I do believe that this is a dangerous precedent being set down by the FAI, it's using/abusing it's power to sanction matches, when a case could be made that the more big events held in Ireland the better. If a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight were scheduled to be held in Croke Park/Aviva/Thomond this summer, with a completely non-Irish undercard, I have a sneaking suspicion the media wouldn't allow them to think twice.

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You really don't seem to be following at all. The fai, and irfu rented the venue in these instances. If you like someone can explain the 'i' in each of those for you.

And please stop with the hypotheticals - or at least get someone, a small child perhaps, to think of some better ones.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Exactly, it's complete rubbish. Every game of football here shouldn't require some direct benefit to the Irish game. If a private company wishes to invite foreign clubs to play a match here then I can't see the problem. If it generates a profit then all the better and well done. If that's what people wish to see then let them pay and attend, if not, the venture will be a failure and the organisers will take a hit.

I'd prefer Irish football were attented and supported through its own merits and not through restricting competition. Very small minded, it would remind you of De Valera's trade war.

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Would you impose any limits on private enterprise?

For example (and personally speaking i think this is a much better hypothetically than we've seen in this thread so far) should the epl revisit their hair brained scheme to bring their league games outside england and wales. And the gaa decide oh that sounds good, here use headquarters. Would that would be ok?

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Occured to me last night - How does honest John stand legally on this given his roles in both the FAI and the Aviva??

Like leave football out of it for a second, is this not a fella using his clout within one organisation he's involved with to stop a rival of the other organisation he's involved with from trading??

Possibly nothing wrong with it whatsoever but it seems a bit off to me??

Also does Celtic going public = Dermot Desmond being a bit miffed = a pain for the FAI??

We may be living in interesting times.

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Now you might actually be on to something.

Wasn't the participation agreement brought up last time? Is someone trying to circumvent that?

But lets face it for the foreseeble future there's only one place glamour friendly tournaments are going to take place.

Can any of our free trade advocates give an example of a friendly tournament being organised outside the auspices of the home fa, and without any involvement of home clubs (either playing or providing venue)?

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

Would you impose any limits on private enterprise?

For example (and personally speaking i think this is a much better hypothetically than we've seen in this thread so far) should the epl revisit their hair brained scheme to bring their league games outside england and wales. And the gaa decide oh that sounds good, here use headquarters. Would that would be ok?

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Yes, it would. The LOI should stand up as a product on its own merits. If EPL clubs aren't playing friendlies here then it'll still be the priority on the sports segment of our national news, the subject of an extended highlights programme on our national boradcaster etc. Similarly, if the FAI feels this tournament detracts attention or income from their endeavours it's up to them to offer something better priced, more interesting or let the other party at it.

There are friendlies played often in the US between big European clubs during the summer. Off the top of my head I can remember Celtic playing Man U in the Toronto SkyDome, which is not a football stadium, and I'm pretty sure it was a third party company who organised and promoted the match. Did it take place under the auspices of the home FA? I'm not sure but it seems to be necessary for any game to take place according to what has happened in Limerick. Have I ever seen of an FA attempting to block such games elsewhere? To the best of my knowledge, no.

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Originally Posted by A N Mouse

You really don't seem to be following at all. The fai, and irfu rented the venue in these instances. If you like someone can explain the 'i' in each of those for you.

And please stop with the hypotheticals - or at least get someone, a small child perhaps, to think of some better ones.he I won't trade insult as you clearly are a little off teh track. So I'll just revert to Limerick's case. They are an Irish club (last I heard) they organised a fundraising friendly, were blocked because of a previously unknown (from what I remember) contract clause with a 3rd party private company who were profiting from hosting matches in Ireland.

So before you throw more senseless insults into the mix, just think that it could be your club next - monopoly is monopoly and as with Telecom Eireann many moons ago with tariff altering, the public didn't cop before it was too late. I have yet to see an argument put forward that wipes out the benefit of hosting the tournament.




Would you impose any limits on private enterprise?

For example (and personally speaking i think this is a much better hypothetically than we've seen in this thread so far) should the epl revisit their hair brained scheme to bring their league games outside england and wales. And the gaa decide oh that sounds good, here use headquarters. Would that would be ok?



Now you might actually be on to something.

Wasn't the participation agreement brought up last time? Is someone trying to circumvent that?

But lets face it for the foreseeble future there's only one place glamour friendly tournaments are going to take place.

Can any of our free trade advocates give an example of a friendly tournament being organised outside the auspices of the home fa, and without any involvement of home clubs (either playing or providing venue)?

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North America regularly hosts matches with non-national club teams. Google it, they exist.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I won't trade insult as you clearly are a little off teh track.

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You made two posts with multiple analogies that either showed little appreciation of the points raised up to that juncture, or were of questionable relevance. Sure I could have been more polite about it, but it was an effort to keep you on track.

Seems I partly succeded. No more anaolgies, but this instead :

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

So I'll just revert to Limerick's case. They are an Irish club (last I heard) they organised a fundraising friendly, were blocked because of a previously unknown (from what I remember) contract clause with a 3rd party private company who were profiting from hosting matches in Ireland.

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This is not being debated here. I don't think anyone here claims the fai were in the right over the incident with limerick's proposed friendly last year.

Instead the majority seem to be of the opinion that, however they arrived at it, in this instance the fai have made a good decision.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

So before you throw more senseless insults into the mix, just think that it could be your club next - monopoly is monopoly and as with Telecom Eireann many moons ago with tariff altering, the public didn't cop before it was too late. I have yet to see an argument put forward that wipes out the benefit of hosting the tournament.

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That boat has sailed my friend. All, participating, clubs would appear to be subject to the ruling from last year. The fact that only Limerick would really have that option open to them is beside the point.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I have yet to see an argument put forward that wipes out the benefit of hosting the tournament.

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Your mind seems to be made up, and I doubt anything will change it. Good luck tilting at windmills.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Yes, it would. The LOI should stand up as a product on its own merits. If EPL clubs aren't playing friendlies here then it'll still be the priority on the sports segment of our national news, the subject of an extended highlights programme on our national boradcaster etc. Similarly, if the FAI feels this tournament detracts attention or income from their endeavours it's up to them to offer something better priced, more interesting or let the other party at it.

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So just to be clear you are advocating that the fai sanction english top flight league matches in Dublin? Because that was the question you were asked.

All this talk of monolopies and free markets is severely missing the point.

Football is not a free market. Its a walled garden, and if you want in then you have to go through the gatekeeper.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

There are friendlies played often in the US between big European clubs during the summer. Off the top of my head I can remember Celtic playing Man U in the Toronto SkyDome, which is not a football stadium, and I'm pretty sure it was a third party company who organised and promoted the match. Did it take place under the auspices of the home FA? I'm not sure but it seems to be necessary for any game to take place according to what has happened in Limerick. Have I ever seen of an FA attempting to block such games elsewhere? To the best of my knowledge, no.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

North America regularly hosts matches with non-national club teams. Google it, they exist.

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I'm well aware that individual matches take place. This has been happening since football began to be codified - teams going on tour and tourist teams meeting in exhibition matches.

In principle I have no complaint with this.

I specifically asked for examples of a tournament (preferably a recent one) were local football was not getting its pound of flesh.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

North America regularly hosts matches with non-national club teams. Google it, they exist.

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They're sanctioned by the USSF and MLS because they want to raise awareness of the sport. Thats not needed here.

And the US isn't the place to be arguing about free market football economics when they have salary caps, restrictions on ownership and generally run in the exact way some here are decrying the FAI for doing.

The argument that the League should be able to stand on its own two feet would be valid if it wasn't in the pits. As it is, it needs all the protection it can get. And if thats at the expense of foreign clubs and businessmen with no interest i irish football, then so be it

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Originally Posted by Dodge

The argument that the League should be able to stand on its own two feet would be valid if it wasn't in the pits. As it is, it needs all the protection it can get. And if thats at the expense of foreign clubs and businessmen with no interest i irish football, then so be it

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Pretty much sums it up for me. Just as a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day I think the FAI got this one right. A football associations main aim should be development of the game and this proposed tournament in no way benifits Irish Football.

fai got this one completely correct.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

The argument that the League should be able to stand on its own two feet would be valid if it wasn't in the pits. As it is, it needs all the protection it can get. And if thats at the expense of foreign clubs and businessmen with no interest i irish football, then so be it

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This thread in a nutshell

And by the same token, could we go off and hold an international rugby 7's in Dalymount with no Irish teams/clubs/players involved? You can bet your bottom dollar this would not be supported/sanctioned and there would be no scruples in tell us where to go .... and rightly so.

Seems there may be more to this than first thought.

Reports today that the crowd the FAI were due to run a tournament with this summer want nothing to do with it anymore and are the ones behind the thomond park tournament. The FAI wanted nearly double the rent that the FA want for wembley. Apparently a 4 year tv deal had been set up for the thomond park tournament also. Celtic have been getting in on it now saying the FAI have no right to stop this tournament. Limerick FC will have no involvement either.


On the grounds that no money from this will go back into irish football I'd be against it but according to the crowd running the tournament the FAI made a balls of setting up a tournament in Dublin and tried to screw them basically and this as much about Delaney throwing his toys out of the pram as him protecting Irish footballs interests.

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Celtic have been getting in on it now saying the FAI have no right to stop this tournament

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Pats couldn't play Limerick in a friendly without the FAI's OK. Celtic, if they said it, are talking rubbish

Now, any links to these reports or quotes. Be interesting to see where they come from

I'd like to start picking holes in it (like the FAI not being the people charging rent for Aviva for starters)

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Seems there may be more to this than first thought.

Reports today that the crowd the FAI were due to run a tournament with this summer want nothing to do with it anymore and are the ones behind the thomond park tournament. The FAI wanted nearly double the rent that the FA want for wembley. Apparently a 4 year tv deal had been set up for the thomond park tournament also. Celtic have been getting in on it now saying the FAI have no right to stop this tournament. Limerick FC will have no involvement either.


On the grounds that no money from this will go back into irish football I'd be against it but according to the crowd running the tournament the FAI made a balls of setting up a tournament in Dublin and tried to screw them basically and this as much about Delaney throwing his toys out of the pram as him protecting Irish footballs interests.

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Now we're getting somewhere..just when you think things are starting to go right within the FAI.

Alike Dodge though, I would like to see where this is coming from.

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Seems there may be more to this than first thought.

Reports today that the crowd the FAI were due to run a tournament with this summer want nothing to do with it anymore and are the ones behind the thomond park tournament. The FAI wanted nearly double the rent that the FA want for wembley. Apparently a 4 year tv deal had been set up for the thomond park tournament also. Celtic have been getting in on it now saying the FAI have no right to stop this tournament. Limerick FC will have no involvement either.

On the grounds that no money from this will go back into irish football I'd be against it but according to the crowd running the tournament the FAI made a balls of setting up a tournament in Dublin and tried to screw them basically and this as much about Delaney throwing his toys out of the pram as him protecting Irish footballs interests.

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A damn sight more 'right' with the FAI than a scottish football club in dictating if/when football fixtures are played in Ireland.

Wonder is this an attempt to see if any carpet bagger can arrange football game(s) without the approval of the FAI (ie not have to pay FAI ) as a precedent ?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Pats couldn't play Limerick in a friendly without the FAI's OK. Celtic, if they said it, are talking rubbish

Now, any links to these reports or quotes. Be interesting to see where they come from

I'd like to start picking holes in it (like the FAI not being the people charging rent for Aviva for starters)

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It's in todays Limerick Leader.

Ya Celtic are talking through their holes alright. Right down to junior football friendlies can't be authorised in Ireland without it coming from a higher authority i.e the LDMC for junior soccer in Limerick.

Damien O Brien who runs Iconic Worldwide who the FAI claimed in February to have a deal set up to run the Dublin Tournament has said that deal is not in place.


Would be good to get some more input from people that may no more of the ins and outs of the rental etc... than myself as there is a bit of chat here about it. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056644553

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Originally Posted by Jofspring

Seems there may be more to this than first thought.

Reports today that the crowd the FAI were due to run a tournament with this summer want nothing to do with it anymore and are the ones behind the thomond park tournament. The FAI wanted nearly double the rent that the FA want for wembley. Apparently a 4 year tv deal had been set up for the thomond park tournament also. Celtic have been getting in on it now saying the FAI have no right to stop this tournament. Limerick FC will have no involvement either.


On the grounds that no money from this will go back into irish football I'd be against it but according to the crowd running the tournament the FAI made a balls of setting up a tournament in Dublin and tried to screw them basically and this as much about Delaney throwing his toys out of the pram as him protecting Irish footballs interests.

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If true (that they made this claim) celtic should be encouraged to explore their theory to the fullest.

Two games in europe is about all they expect this weather anyways :D

No matter what way you look at it, the FAI are fully entitled to make a call on this ... no matter how much sellthick try to muscle in on it.

The FAI basically had to cave in on the steps of the High Court over the Barcelona fiasco and allow Limerick to hold friendlies in the future.

They were going to lose the case due to (if I remember correctly) a legal conflict of interests - being an organisation trying to make a profit though football games while also being the organisation with the power of sanction over football games organised by other organisations (or something like that).

Does the fact that there is no FAI member club involved this time make a difference legally?