Could You Have Managed Ireland to Qualification?

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Dont know, we did try some good stuff under Mick, no? Albeit there was a lot of awful stuff too.

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Trying is one thing and actually doing it is another. Mick was trier and we did try to play the ball the ball as well as use the considerable prowess of Quinn to great advantage.
The difference between 2002 and the 1982 era was that we could outplay and outwit the best teams then, like France and Holland at home and in Holland's case in a do or die game for both, go toe for toe with them on their home ground. Whereas against Holland at home in 2001 we were at our wits end, nerves dangling like Big Ben. And in the case of Russia away last year, depend on events (eg Dunnes' goal line clearance) which can't be explained by science.

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Originally Posted by geysir

...And in the case of Russia away last year, depend on events (eg Dunnes' goal line clearance) which can't be explained by science.

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Yes they can. The following simple inequality explains everything.

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-co...1/09/Dunne.jpg > http://www.lonelyplanet.com/maps/eur..._of_russia.jpg

I think you need a ">" jpg for full visual effect there!

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

International football is rubbish - this talk of squads is rubbish. Greece and Denmark won the Euros. Korea got to a WC semis and the recent African nations was entertaining but lacked any real quality. Apart from Spain and Germany, maybe a Messi inspired Argentina please tell me what teams are great to watch, what teams are loaded with star quality? More or less any team on their day can get a good performance.
My point is we would have also qualified playing good football rather than hoof the ball. (yes give me Barcelona over Stoke all day!! apart from their cheating!)
Spud - hardest group, what!!! We got one of the easiest.

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I'm too young to remember Denmark in '92, but both Greece and South Korea got those results on the back of great organisation at the back, hard work, and not trying anything fancy. Just like Trap is going for with Ireland

There are a few teams who play attacking, inventive football, you're right. Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Holland, Germany, Chile, but there's a reason most of the teams apart from these don't. You need the right players to play that sort of a system. At the moment, Ireland don't. At least, not to the level at which it makes more sense than what we're doing now.

We're never going to outpass the Spanish or the Italians, so why play into their hands by trying to? Our best hope is to do what Trap has had us doing very well, which is defending as a unit, and hitting them on the break.

I agree with the above post. And the media always talks up Chile as a great dark horse and I bet on them, and they never do anything.

No I couldnt !

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

I'm too young to remember Denmark in '92, but both Greece and South Korea got those results on the back of great organisation at the back, hard work, and not trying anything fancy. Just like Trap is going for with Ireland

There are a few teams who play attacking, inventive football, you're right. Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Holland, Germany, Chile, but there's a reason most of the teams apart from these don't. You need the right players to play that sort of a system. At the moment, Ireland don't. At least, not to the level at which it makes more sense than what we're doing now.

We're never going to outpass the Spanish or the Italians, so why play into their hands by trying to? Our best hope is to do what Trap has had us doing very well, which is defending as a unit, and hitting them on the break.

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That's a fair point actually but we are nowhere near getting to a quarter/semi? Would be surprised if Traps team get a point in the summer

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

That's a fair point actually but we are nowhere near getting to a quarter/semi? Would be surprised if Traps team get a point in the summer

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My personal prediction would be a draw against the Croatians and Italians, and a loss to the Spanish, but in 2004, the Greeks just scraped through their group, by virtue of having scored more goals than Spain. If we can beat Croatia in the first game, and I think it's within our capability to do that, we can frustrate Italy and get a point, but probably won't be able to hold out for 90 minutes against the Spanish pressure. 4 points is perfectly possible to qualify with, and I would be delighted with that. However, I think playing cautious football and frustrating the opposition is the most realistic way of doing that. Going out all guns blazing against technically superior opposition is likely to get us demolished.

Look at the squads that Kerr and Stan had their at their disposal. The personnel available are certainly no better than what were available to his two immediate predecessors. The key difference is that Traps teams are hard to beat and that he has qualified. Kerr probably shouldve delivered qualification but two bad results against Israel screwed his one full campaign up, would what happened to Ireland at home to Israel happen under Trap, I very much doubt it.

Look how organised the team are in Trap. They have a definitive purpose and system. Anyone who enjoys the game of football, appreciates the tactics he has employed and who has watched Ireland live can appreciate the defence tactics adopted by trap. They are not 'entertaining' to watch but they are very effective, very difficult to break down. Yes at the detriment of a strong attacking force but his ethos is first not to lose.

it won't be boring to watch in the euro's

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

My personal prediction would be a draw against the Croatians and Italians, and a loss to the Spanish, but in 2004, the Greeks just scraped through their group, by virtue of having scored more goals than Spain. If we can beat Croatia in the first game, and I think it's within our capability to do that, we can frustrate Italy and get a point, but probably won't be able to hold out for 90 minutes against the Spanish pressure. 4 points is perfectly possible to qualify with, and I would be delighted with that. However, I think playing cautious football and frustrating the opposition is the most realistic way of doing that. Going out all guns blazing against technically superior opposition is likely to get us demolished.

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I think Croatia are underrated here, and Italy overrated for historical reasons. There's very little between the two teams.

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Originally Posted by John83

I think Croatia are underrated here, and Italy overrated for historical reasons. There's very little between the two teams.

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A fair point, but I do think at major tournaments especially, reputation and belief count for a huge amount. How often have we seen poor German, Italian, or Brazilian sides reach the finals, and excel, simply because that is what they always do? It's not the biggest factor, but I do think that it is important. Similarly to the way good players often become great upon signing for Manchester United, for example.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

A fair point, but I do think at major tournaments especially, reputation and belief count for a huge amount. How often have we seen poor German, Italian, or Brazilian sides reach the finals, and excel, simply because that is what they always do? It's not the biggest factor, but I do think that it is important. Similarly to the way good players often become great upon signing for Manchester United, for example.

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Like Diego Forlan and Liam Miller? :p

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Originally Posted by Irish_Praha

Like Diego Forlan and Liam Miller? :p

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No, ignore them obviously. Like Djemba-Djemba and Bébé. ;)

I might have to retract that statement in light of the fact that I've just remembered David Bellion!

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

A fair point, but I do think at major tournaments especially, reputation and belief count for a huge amount. How often have we seen poor German, Italian, or Brazilian sides reach the finals, and excel, simply because that is what they always do?

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While they can definitely overachieve at times (Germany in the 2002 World Cup being the obvious example), remember Germany got knocked out at the groups in Euro 2004 (drawing with Latvia) and Euro 2000, while Italy didn't make it through the Euro 2004 groups either (or indeed, the last World Cup). France too, another country "too big to go down" to mix cliches, have gotten knocked out at group stages in recent times (three times out of five since winning the World Cup/Euro double). We need to respect Italy obviously, but they're definitely beatable.

I watched the Italy-USA match last week and although it was supposed to be an experimental side, they were relatively poor.