Ronnie O'Brien

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

That's a very 2-dimensional view Mick. I think your opinions are generally anti-English anyway. It's ironic because Wolfe Tone once said that the "Americans are half English, half Dutch, with the worst qualities of both peoples". Ronnie O'Brien declaring for the US should not be viewed as any differently just becase it is the US and not England. Would we be as supportive if England wanted to call him up? Unlike Jon Macken who has Irish blood, Ronnie has no American ancestry that I know of.

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I am not anti-English, I am anti-bullsh*t which is what Englishmen playing for Ireland is. The notion of Irishness and Americaness are so different, maybe you have to live in the US and Ireland to understand, not sure if you ever lived in either country. I like English people, I just dislike the historical role of England in Ireland - but I always said we would have done the same to them had the shoe been on theother foot. If I am 2-dimensional you may well be 1-dimensional :D

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Originally Posted by 1MickCollins

I am not anti-English, I am anti-bullsh*t which is what Englishmen playing for Ireland is. The notion of Irishness and Americaness are so different, maybe you have to live in the US and Ireland to understand, not sure if you ever lived in either country. I like English people, I just dislike the historical role of England in Ireland - but I always said we would have done the same to them had the shoe been on theother foot. If I am 2-dimensional you may well be 1-dimensional :D

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I'm afraid you may be wrong on this one Mick. Nationality is an extremely ambiguous word to define. Nationality is essentially a personal thing. How on earth can Irishness and Americaness be different? You may view them as different, but the fact remains if someone like Ronnie O'Brien can consider himself for the US, then surely there is nothing wrong with the likes of Jon Macken (someone with Irish blood) playing for Ireland. Why should one rule apply to the US and a different rule for Ireland? You seem open-minded enough about O'Brien's potential involvement with the US, so maybe you should be open-minded enough to cast your views on Anglo-Irish relations to one side.

Ronnie O'Brien has a chip on his shoulder about how he was treated in Ireland and the UK...

(bit harsh considering he was out times man of the year :p

Even if he suddenly turned into Pele, he would tell the FAI to f**k off...

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Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

I'm afraid you may be wrong on this one Mick. Nationality is an extremely ambiguous word to define. Nationality is essentially a personal thing. How on earth can Irishness and Americaness be different? You may view them as different, but the fact remains if someone like Ronnie O'Brien can consider himself for the US, then surely there is nothing wrong with the likes of Jon Macken (someone with Irish blood) playing for Ireland. Why should one rule apply to the US and a different rule for Ireland? You seem open-minded enough about O'Brien's potential involvement with the US, so maybe you should be open-minded enough to cast your views on Anglo-Irish relations to one side.

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I suppose what I mean is when you come to the US it is in a sense still the New World, this soceity has the ability to absorb people from any culture or background, this is the foundation of the country. Don't get me wrong about not wanting to have people born elsewhere of the Irish parentage play for Ireland. I am delighted that Gary Breen and Kevin Kilbane and Graham Stck have played for Ireland, as an emmigrant I know the importance of connecting back to your roots.

I still however draw a sharp distinction between Kilbane or Breen and people like Andy Townsend ( who gave everything he had for Ireland ) or Tony Cascarino ( who it turns out had absolutley no Irish connection ).

Lets just say for arguments sake that international football is a new concept as of now, there has never been an international match prior to today - so our minds are and not conditioned by the past 20 years. Brian Kerr is appointed manager and will name his first squad and we are to play England in our first ever international. Who would be in that squad? What would the Irish public say if Clinton Morrison or Matt Holland were called up?

I am just pointing out how conditioned we have been by the Granny-rule over the past 20-30 years. And yes I believe the US is an exception to this rule, spend a week here and you may understand.

whats wrong with it? its international football do u really have to have a blood burning desire to play for your country? i dont think, so the first thing you need is ability after that you need luck but more importantly u need to have a connection with the country, look at steve heighway possibly irelands greatest ever winger the only connection he had was he was born here while his parents were on holidays at the time, but he is probably ok because he was born here but macken on the other only has family on his side there is no way he should play for the land of his grandmother the cheek of him! i know if iceland(or any other country) came calling to my door asking me to play international football for im not gonna turn around and say "no sorry i cant because it wouldnt be fair to people who were born in iceland" and if u say you would then your very foolish

lol @ inexile, I have to say i'd play for Iceland too if given the chance, if only for the Iclandic birds that I could pull after the games! :)

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And yes I believe the US is an exception to this rule, spend a week here and you may understand.

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I agree, the U.S. is an exception simply because America is essentially a country made up of other cultures and nations. It is a country made up of 2nd\3rd\4th\5th etc generation Irish, Italian, Spanish, British, Asian, Africans etc. Unless there is still a sizable Native American population still in existance, you will be hard pressed to find a true blood American, if one exists at all. It is a nation whose population is descended from other nationalities and cultures (this is probably also why it's society is so fu*cked up). Today it is a revolving door of immigrants. How is Ronnie O'Brien any different to the thousands who have gone to America every year for as long as it has existed? I'm sure after a few years there, Ronnie will feel as American as any of the locals cos really you have to ask, what really constitutes being American? If its being born there, thats half the country fu*cked... :D

Best of luck to him I say, but he does have a serious chip on his shoulder

isnt it true though anyone would play international football for whoever they could if they got the chance so why would professional footballers be any different?

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Originally Posted by inexile

isnt it true though anyone would play international football for whoever they could if they got the chance so why would professional footballers be any different?

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I totally disagree... in the case of people who are from a country and their parents are from that country... why the hell would you want to play for someone else?

If one of your parents was a different nationality and you felt a certain loyalty to that, that's a bit more understandable...

I have to say I think some peoples goodwill towards O'Briens prospect of playing for the States is misplaced.
Okay, maybe your argument that he now lives there and is integrating into society there merits his inclusion in the national team. However, I feel like this goodwill is only brought about by the fact that he would not be good enough to improve our current squad.
What would your attitude be if he suddenly started scoring goals for fun, attracted the attention of a really big club (Juventus say :cool: ) and became a top serie A player - would you still give him your blessing for representing the stars & stripes or would you denounce the man as a mercenary, treachorous, ungrateful poo?

It's not going to happen anyway. If he is only applying for his green card now, it will take him another 5 years to become a citizen. At that age he will be 30/31 I think, a little too late for him to start his international career. Dallas fans tell me he married an Irish girl during the summer so getting citizenship through marriage is out too.

But an interesting topic nonetheless. also see here on a yank board: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139747

From today's Guardian:

FROM THE RIVERSIDE TO DALLAS, VIA TURIN

Chris Ruffler asks: "Whatever happened to Ronnie O'Brien - the man released by Bryan Robson at Middlesbrough, but snapped up days later by the mighty Juventus?"

Well, the boy from Bray has gone a long way, literally, since heading through the Riverside exit door. Taking up the story after his, let's say, surprise move to Turin, Juve gave O'Brien a five-year deal.

Barely had he made an impact during the 1998-99 pre-season and Intertoto Cup, la Signora despatched him out on loan to Lugano in Switzerland for six months. He then returned to Italy for further loan spells at Serie B sides Crotone and Lecce. Next stop was Tannadice in 2001, where he rolled up his sleeves in the SPL with Dundee United, before he finally cut his losses at Juventus in 2002.

He then travelled across the Atlantic, no less, where he set about pursuing a career in the United States, playing in the MLS. Dallas Burn [now FC Dallas] took him on, where he impressed in his first season, saw a broken tibia cut short his second, before earning himself a spot in the All-star game during the last campaign. Things continue to go well for the Irishman, with four goals and five assists [!] in ten games this season, helping Dallas to the top of the Western standings.

Didn't he say he had little interest in playing for Ireland and may even look to declare for America after getting engaged to an American girl?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Didn't he say he had little interest in playing for Ireland and may even look to declare for America after getting engaged to an American girl?

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Doesn't Metrostars two posts above say he married an Irish girl? :confused:

Yeah, he married an Irish girl. Or maybe English. Either way she aint a yank. He is very well loved by the fans in Dallas and has gained quite a reputation.

Now, I never saw him when he played for 'Boro or the other sides in Europe but he is one of the better players here. I've seen enough of him to say that if I were Kerr I would call him up for a friendly for a look. He always plays well for Dallas and knocks in a few good goals. But then again, I aint Brian Kerr. Check out some of his goals this year from the Dallas website:

http://fc.dallas.mlsnet.com/MLS/sigh...x.jsp?club=fcd

From his bio on their website:

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Most memorable soccer moment was his first game with Juventus…Enjoys playing golf and going to the movies and lists the Nutty Professor as one of his favorite movies…Listens to a variety of music, especially rhythm and blues…Favorite non-soccer team is the Dallas Mavericks…Would like to be an athletic trainer when his playing career is over…Once asked Franz Beckenbauer for an autograph…Has one older brother and two younger sisters…Married to Vicki.

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Should Ronnie O'Brien be called up Staunton's first squad? He got 6 goals and 12 assists (2nd highest in the league) for Dallas last season and is one of the best players in the MLS. Metrostars are apparantly looking to buy him.

Here's a goal he scored last season which made goal of the week:
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-GOTW-3

I've downloaded highlights from the Allstars match and another match and taken out the bits O'Brien is involved in from this site:
http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/index.jsp?club=fcd

in the Allstars vs Fulham (he scores a dodgy goal):
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-vs-Fulham

vs New England (scores an top class goal and highly thought of by the commentator):
http://media.putfile.com/Ronnie-OBrien-vs-New-England

An interview with Ronnie in May:
mms://a1503.v115042.c11504.g.vm.akam...fcd_obrien.wma

Quality of the video's aren't great but its my first time seeing anything of O'Brien in the MLS and he looks worth a shot for the right wing.

Id like to see him get a chance. and with the experimental period coming up in the initial stages of Stauntons tenure id be disappointed if he didnt get half an hour at some point.

what bout yourself?

Agree. Even if he's only training with the squad Stan & co. ought to get a feel for how good he is. I reckon the first few squads should be 27-30 man squads.

Who would be dropped? Is he amoung best say 5 central midfielders we have?

Isn't he a right sided midfielder?

Aye, he's a right winger. I don't know why he wears the no.6 though, probably the way it is in America.