Pope's UK visit

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I just hope the Pope shows the same PR touch he did in recent visits abroad. In Malta he met privately with representatives of victims of clerical abuse (2 men who'd been abused at a church orphanage), listened to them, apologised and put out an order to remove a previous Papal edict barring release of church records.

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I'll go with his first instincts as the measure of the man:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005...hildprotection

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/851...0485CCC71F383D

These are wooden blocks which people write their wishes/dreams/prayers on and hang on the walls of shrines in Japan.

I remember a few years ago, I was idly looking at some of them when one that was written in English caught my eye. After the normal stuff about wishing that everybody in his/her family would stay healthy and hoping that somebody would pass some exam, the last line was, 'and I hope the current pope dies even quicker than the last one did.'

I wish I'd taken a picture of it.

To make this some way on topic, the best way for the Pope to offer healing would be to take genuine steps to:

a. expose and aid in the investigation (and any subsequent prosecution) of all priests suspected of child abuse.
b. take transparent and concrete steps to ensure that abuse is never systematically allowed (and assisted) to occur again.

Until then, spare me the nonsense about a humble church seeking forgiveness.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I guess you have no fingernails to fight with so best let you get on with it.:yawn: Though you should read texts more carefully and not try to draw deliberately wrong conclusions that best/worst suit your need for adversity.

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Not trying to be adverse at all Spudulika. But John83s Guardian link is well worth reproducing and if you've a comment on it let's hear it. Seems while your German Shepherd hasn't the power to compel his underlings to co-operate -as you tell it, he'd no such doubts about his power to compel them to keep their mouths shut -under pain of excommunication no less. Nice. AND he wasn't even Pope then!

This'd make him an accessory after the fact in most civilised countries. Take your pick also from conspiracy, wreckless endangerment of minors, interfering with witnesses...

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Not trying to be adverse at all Spudulika. But John83s Guardian link is well worth reproducing and if you've a comment on it let's hear it. Seems while your German Shepherd hasn't the power to compel his underlings to co-operate -as you tell it, he'd no such doubts about his power to compel them to keep their mouths shut -under pain of excommunication no less. Nice. AND he wasn't even Pope then!

This'd make him an accessory after the fact in most civilised countries. Take your pick also from conspiracy, wreckless endangerment of minors, interfering with witnesses...

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Careful the soapbox doesn't falter under the weight of mighty righteousness - read posts more carefully and you'll see that there has a lot to be made up for by the Pope, and the Guardian report is old news, what counts is what they do - pontificating on what was done wrong is mighty easy, however the steps outlined in Osarusan's post are some I'd already alluded to - removing church protocol and making individuals who have offended liable for prosecution.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

however the steps outlined in Osarusan's post are some I'd already alluded to - removing church protocol and making individuals who have offended liable for prosecution.

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Have those steps been carried out though? Because if they haven't, the you can't dismiss the Guardian article as "old news".

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

pontificating on what was done wrong is mighty easy

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Interesting choice of word.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Have those steps been carried out though? Because if they haven't, the you can't dismiss the Guardian article as "old news".

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Pineapple, it has been debated over and over, it is old news from the point of view that it has been done to death and it will not happen unless driven from the church itself. It will be only change once the head of the church starts doing things that are superficially progressive - this is the ripple of a deeper undercurrent of change that is how the church changes. I was unfortunate in a sense to have taken a masters in Maynooth and as part of the course had to go over church history. Any time something changes in the process or attitude of the church begins as a "p.r." move - from the late 9th century onwards. It will change, though it will be slow and painful.

Dodge, I thought the same thing as I typed it :-)

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Originally Posted by John83

In fairness, he did claim they're not real churches.

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And there not, lust and divorce instigating a fat King to initiate their own laws.

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Originally Posted by dortie

And there not, lust and divorce instigating a fat King to initiate their own laws.

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Yes, because that applies to every Protestant faith and not just the Anglicans. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by John83

Yes, because that applies to every Protestant faith and not just the Anglicans. :rolleyes:

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To an extent yes, literally wanting to exert their own interpretation of Christianity. Reformers couldnt even agree with themselves never mind Rome.

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Originally Posted by dortie

To an extent yes, literally wanting to exert their own interpretation of Christianity. Reformers couldnt even agree with themselves never mind Rome.

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Luther and his followers were excommunicated for disagreeing with church doctrine on the necessity of good works, and modern Lutheranism more closely resembles the pre-Reformation Catholic Church in terms of rites and doctrine than does the Church itself. But yeah, I can see how "lust and divorce instigating a fat King to initiate their own laws" would apply to them "to an extent".

Ignorance is forgiveable. Acting on it is not.