Irish-born players to play for other international teams?

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Originally Posted by sean r

what if he obtained an irish passport? then would the republic refuse? or said something like he would consider the republic

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If he had obtained a passport, he would have been deemed an Irish national, as far as my understanding of Irish nationality prior to the amendments brought about by the Good Friday Agreement goes and whatever laws might have applied at the time. Whether he would have been bothered to, or even wanted to, is another matter; probably not. Anyway, the FAI might well have refused him in the extremely unlikely chance that he did volunteer, considering the prior agreement with the IFA from 1950 not to call up northern-born players.

However, as I said, it would have been very unlikely he would have been even remotely interested in playing for us considering Northern Ireland played in the somewhat prestigious British Home Championship at the time on a yearly basis and were seen as the better side anyway. The idea of northern-born Irish nationals representing us did not really enter the wider equation or players' consideration until the 1990s when the perception of the two sides' relative strength shifted in favour of us and, possibly, mindsets began to develop in favour of better acknowledging "individual identity rights" in the north as negotiations for the Good Friday Agreement commenced. It's important to be aware that the GFA didn't change anything statutorily as far as FIFA rules were concerned, contrary to common misunderstanding, because numerous northern-born Irish nationals played for us in the years prior to its passing. Personally, I just think mindsets changed, but I'm open to correction.

I know its a hypothetical, but it wouldn't have mattered what country George Best had fancied playing for. If he managed to get his hands on a Brazilian passport he would have been in the team.

I mean it was only a gentleman's agreement, and he was the best player in Europe, if not the world

Does Paul MacShane count?

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Originally Posted by sorbothegreek

I'm pretty sure i remember reading here about an Irish goalkeeper who ended up acquiring nationality through residency in some far off Islands and played some International matches for them..? Only a few years back as well..

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Wasnt it the Turks and Caicos Islands ?

There was something about that as well; a lad I was in college with was asked to play an international rugby game for them on a Saturday and an international football game on the Sunday. He had to pull out though as he had repeats.

Lads how many of the Norhtern Ireland squad would have been catholic in the 1982 world cup squad?
Im just curious ( dont wana start any drama )

Here's the squad - I'd guess that at least 6 would be considered as being from a "catholic" background:

Pat Jennings, Jimmy Nicholl, Mal Donaghy, David McCreery, Chris Nicholl, John O'Neill, Noel Brotherston, Martin O'Neill, Gerry Armstrong, Sammy McIlroy, Billy Hamilton, John McClelland, Samuel Nelson, Thomas Cassidy, Thomas Finney, Norman Whiteside, Jim Platt, John Jameson, Patrick (Felix) Healy, James Cleary, Robert Campbell, George Dunlop.

I guess your right. I ask because I heard an interview from Martin O'Neill saying it was a great time and there was great banter between them with songs etc and taking the mickey of it all :O)

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Originally Posted by sean r

i think that keeper who was mentioned in the previous thread played for cayman islands i saw something on futbol mundial about it

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His surname is Gregg. Played a challenge match with my Gaa team as his Da and brother are involved. Couldn't kick the thing further than 30 yards. Brutal!

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

As I understand it, and as far as FIFA's rules were concerned, he technically would have been had he ever claimed Irish citizenship. However, as the FAI had already agreed not to call up northern-born players around 1950, it's unlikely it would ever have happened. At the time, I believe, it was more "fashionable" or "prestigious" to play for the north anyway as they were perceived to be the superior of the two teams on this island up until the late 1980s, when we first qualified for Euro '88 and then the 1990 World Cup.

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Was the right to Irish citizenship for people in the North not only brought about after Good Friday?

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Was the right to Irish citizenship for people in the North not only brought about after Good Friday?

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No, it has always existed as a fundamental element of Irish nationality law. It differed slightly in substance prior to the GFA, but it still existed. Before the GFA, those born in the north could merely acquire Irish citizenship and were considered Irish citizens from the date their application went through, I believe. If Irish nationality law remained this way nowadays, under FIFA's current rules, technically, I don't think northern-born Irish citizens such as Darron Gibson would be eligible to play for us as they would have to further satisfy the criteria in article 17 of FIFA's regulations governing the application of it's statutes which deals with those players who have acquired a new nationality from their birth nationality.

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17: Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

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Their Irish nationality would still be "a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence", but when such nationalities acquired from a date after birth are assumed, I believe article 17 is invoked.

I'm not sure what the actual FIFA rules regarding this matter stated at the time of George Best, but presumably they were less stringent as Alan Kernaghan (had northern-born grandparents) was eligible to play for us through simply acquiring Irish citizenship as late as the mid-1990s. There were also other northern-born players who played for us in the years immediately prior to the GFA, for example.

Currently, the right to Irish citizenship for those born in the north is an automatic birthright (just so long as at least one parent of the individual is an Irish citizen, although this condition applies island-wide by virtue of a constitutional amendment agreed since the GFA). This means that once an individual who is entitled by virtue of being born in the north - or someone on their behalf, such as a parent - performs any act that only an Irish citizen is entitled to perform, such as applying for an Irish passport, they will be acknowledged as an Irish citizen from birth. It is not assumed that an individual is not an Irish citizen if they have yet to indicate that they wish to be acknowledged as such through the performance of any act that only an Irish citizen can perform. I believe that to be the substantial difference brought about by the GFA. Thus, under FIFA's current rules, article 15 alone applies to northern-born Irish citizens:

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15: Principle
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country.

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As an added benefit, the British government and electorate in NI formally/democratically acknowledged and accepted the extra-territorial application of Irish nationality law over the north. Prior to the GFA, this application of Irish nationality law would have been an issue of contention and viewed in "aggressive" or "irredentist" terms.

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Lads how many of the Norhtern Ireland squad would have been catholic in the 1982 world cup squad?
Im just curious ( dont wana start any drama )

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There has been wars started in this country for less than this my good man

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Originally Posted by dcfc_1928

Here's the squad - I'd guess that at least 6 would be considered as being from a "catholic" background:

Pat Jennings, Jimmy Nicholl, Mal Donaghy, David McCreery, Chris Nicholl, John O'Neill, Noel Brotherston, Martin O'Neill, Gerry Armstrong, Sammy McIlroy, Billy Hamilton, John McClelland, Samuel Nelson, Thomas Cassidy, Thomas Finney, Norman Whiteside, Jim Platt, John Jameson, Patrick (Felix) Healy, James Cleary, Robert Campbell, George Dunlop.

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Pat Rice had disappeared off the scene by then which surprises me slightly.

Anyway, if I might be bold enough to guess, those who were of a 'nationalist' background, would have been Jennings, Donaghy, O'Neill(s) x2, Armstrong, Healy and Cassidy? Cleary I'm guessing was the product of a mixed marriage?

While Sammy Nelson was a strange one as he seems to be revered even still by the Irish population in the vicinity of a certain part of North London!
Having his testimonial v.Celtic in 1980 probably helped seal this impression....

Thanks guys I wonder just who will qualify for a major tournament next :O) us or them

Maybe it'll take being 'we'....

Not really sure I feel comfortable about denominational profiling of the 82 NI squad, but I am pretty sure that Tommy Cassidy comes from a Unionist back ground. Born in East Belfast and famously depicted on mural along with Best and Dougan as "local" football icons.

how about paddy mccourt could he have played for us?

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Originally Posted by sean r

how about paddy mccourt could he have played for us?

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Yeah, there was nothing to stop Paddy McCourt declaring for us other than his own levels of willingness and ambition.

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Originally Posted by sean r

how about paddy mccourt could he have played for us?

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Nah, not good enough...

TP, stand corrected, mainly as I mis-counted in my enthusiasm there! I mean I went all GR, FFS.

As for PMcC, of course he's good enough. I mean if McGeady is, so is he.

But immaterial now, though as documented in his own thread, even NW won't pick him.
Part of the problem is own though, being an 'impact' player to bring on when you're cruising to victory.
Not too many international competitive fixtures, that nature would be relevant to.