Verdict on LOI Clubs Performances in Europe 2010

We have done well whilst living above our means in the past few years.

This season was a bit of a reality check. I think this year will mirror what will probably happen over the next 3 or 4 years and our ranking will slip leading to more difficult draws.

Rovers have shown what can be done and I would expect the experience to stand to them in future years. They will be our best hope of a breakthrough for a while.

Bohs result was very disapointing given that TNS are in the Europa league play off draw later. Our best hope next season is our champions following a similar route.

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Originally Posted by Macy

I missed having our resident drama queen around! I assume you're around long enough to remember that was the chant at Pats?

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Should've gone to Specsavers Macy - considering I've posted about 30 times in the last month, I'm not sure how you missed having me around...

And I think I'm not the one missing the point. Which is that referring to Moldovans as refugees is racist, no matter who does it or when. If you can't see that, then don't bother responding to me.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Bohs result was very disapointing given that TNS are in the Europa league play off draw later. Our best hope next season is our champions following a similar route.

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That was always our best hope.

(Not including intertoto) only Dundalk in 79/80 (beating Linfield, Hibs (Malta)), Shels in 04/05 (beating Rejkavik, Hadjuk Split) have progressed past 2 rounds in the European Cup/Champions League. In the UEFA Cup/Europa League its only happened 4 times; Cork in 05/06 (Ekranes, Djugarden), Derry in 06/07 (Gotenburg, Gretna) and Pats in 08/09 (Olimps, Elfsborg) and 09/10 (Valetta, Kryla – technically 3 rounds as we had entered in 2nd rd).

So in the history of Irish football we’ve won 2 ties a grand total of 6 times. Ironically if Pats get the last Europa league spot for next year, we’d have a decent chance of doing it again as we’d be seeded for both the 1st and 2nd rounds.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And I think I'm not the one missing the point. Which is that referring to Moldovans as refugees is racist, no matter who does it or when. If you can't see that, then don't bother responding to me.

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You just used the term in the same way as shedendinvis did. He himself didn't call them refugees, he referred to the name others call them. He should've used "quotes" to placate sensitive pedants like yourself.

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Originally Posted by Straightstory

Rovers - good.
Fingal - solid.
Bohs - embarrassing
Dundalk - poor
I see TNS lost 6-1 to Anderlecht on aggregate, so actually, despite what some people have said, they're not that great.
Maritimo beat Bangor 10-2 (or was it 3?) on aggregate. Good show by Fingal - and they played the right way too. Well suited to European football.

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What he said. Bad year over all, Irish league did better. shams "glam" tie added a gloss to it but overall very little positive. Bohs fiasco shocking.

The sickening thing about the Bohs result was that 2010 would have been perceived as a very good year for the LOI in Europe, had an in-form Bohs beaten TNS and competed against Anderlecht. Another big tie to go along with Rovers, then another big game, win or lose. However, the high of Rovers winning in Israel has to be balanced against the Bohs result, and unfortunately it's the latter that people remember most. The other clubs got tough draws, in fairness. Sporting Fingal gave a good account of themselves, no shame there. Overall, we've had better years in Europe (2004, 2006 and 2008), and will have better years in the future.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Should've gone to Specsavers Macy - considering I've posted about 30 times in the last month, I'm not sure how you missed having me around...

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Must have just been lucky, as only noticed posts the last couple of days :)

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And I think I'm not the one missing the point. Which is that referring to Moldovans as refugees is racist, no matter who does it or when. If you can't see that, then don't bother responding to me.

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As I read it, he was quoting the chant. The chant may be racist, but I don't think the original use in the thread is.

It was a dissapointing year but really apart from Bohs we probably did as well as we could. Rovers win against Bnei was against the head,Sporting Fingal gave a good account against Madeira, Dundalk got through round 1 but have been in a bad run of form for a long time so the Levski result was no surprise, dissapointed they didn't get a result in the home leg maybe. Bohs was a disaster, no two ways about it.

However, there are some circumstances that come into play.
1) Our successful European teams i.e. Drogheda, Derry, Cork and slightly longer ago Shelbourne who had been in Europe and build up their seeding weren't in Europe and similarly with Pats. Look at the 2nd qualifying round this year versus the teams the LOI sides faced last year i.e Valletta and Skonto Riga although that is balanced out to some extent by Bohs draw.
2) There's no doubt the league isn't as strong as it was. A lot of top players have been lost to the league over the past few years

However, looking at the co-efficients its hard to see us remaining so high, looking at the likes of Gyor beating Montpellier, Maribor beating Hibernian home and away, Sheriff getting to at least Europa group stage for 2nd year, Quarabag and Aktobe from the two stans look to be making progress as well.

What will go in our favour next year is Rovers and Pats will almost certainly be in Europe and I don't know the ins and outs but it was mentioned above Pats should be seeded, Rovers could be but not sure on that, Also we'll have two teams starting in the 1st round of the Europa which gives us a chance to build up co-efficient points. Also Fingal are unlikely to get such a tough draw again, if they strengthen a bit at the back they have enough going forward to trouble most teams. A year is a long time in LOI though so I suppose lets see how we're fixed next summer.

Going into the European season, I hoped we would get 1 coeff point - anything above that would be a bonus. As it was, Bohs did worse than I expected, balanced out by Shams doing better.

We got the 1 point but none of the 'bonus' - Fingal were so close to a draw, both home & away; Rovers were also close to a draw last night.

In 2002/03 we got 0.166, in 2003/04 we got 0.333 - now we are so far ahead of where we were 9 years ago that we are unhappy with 1.000

I hope that, in the 2021 season, we won't be happy with 2.000

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

What he said. Bad year over all, Irish league did better. shams "glam" tie added a gloss to it but overall very little positive. Bohs fiasco shocking.

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altho you's did win the same amount of games as the renters did!!!

its funny how people are giving Rovers extra credit for getting Juventus in the draw and therefore concluding they did well.

They did as well as Dundalk.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

its funny how people are giving Rovers extra credit for getting Juventus in the draw and therefore concluding they did well.

They did as well as Dundalk.

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No, beating the Israelis is a far better accomplishment than beating the Luxembourgers

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Originally Posted by Dodge

No, beating the Israelis is a far better accomplishment than beating the Luxembourgers

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not in co-efficient terms. Maybe a little better in footballing terms but certainly not enough to warrant a difference of a verdict of "good" for Rovers and "poor" for Dundalk.

Beating a better team than you > beating a team worse than you.

Fairly straightforward really.

Not getting thumped 8-0 by a fairly average side in the greater scheme of things helps Rovers' cause too.

Dundalk: Played 4, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 2.
Rovers: Played 4, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 2.

thats straightforward.

and as i said above the difference in calibre of Grevenmacher and Bnei is certainly not enough to warrant a difference of a verdict of "good" for Rovers and "poor" for Dundalk as is the common theme in most of the posts on this thread.

I disagree strongly. At the same round that Dundalk got hammered by the Bulgarians, Rovers beat an israeli side.

Can't get more obvious a comparison than that

I think we have to be realistic, we did okay, better than other years and if Bohs-TNS had been on paper instead of plastic they'd have the glamour tie (as mentioned already). We also need to be realistic about the state of the league and the level of talent in it - plus the fact that winter league countries are taking it alot more seriously and spending more money on preparation. I was at 3 european games this season and in each the unfancied side ran a superior side to the limit. Watching the Shamrock Rovers water polo game last night (with Italian commentary) surrounded by idiot "Juve" fans, I felt happy that the side gave it a rattle and if the chance from Murray's header had been put away who knows what would have ensued. The Italians didn't like it up em and just as Shels did in 2004 with Hajduk, they got stuck in and nearly did something.

Next year it'll be interesting to see how clubs prepare and if SF are in Europe again.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2011.html

Currently down to 31st according to bert. Have to keep an eye on the Hungarians.

Not sure if our champions will be seeded in the first round of the CL next year.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Dundalk: Played 4, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 2.
Rovers: Played 4, Won 1, Drew 1, Lost 2.

thats straightforward.

and as i said above the difference in calibre of Grevenmacher and Bnei is certainly not enough to warrant a difference of a verdict of "good" for Rovers and "poor" for Dundalk as is the common theme in most of the posts on this thread.

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But we're not talking in purely co-efficient terms.

Dundalk started a round earlier and were expected to progress. That they lost to the bulgarians was not unexpected, but the scoreline was disappointing. They done as well as expected.

Rovers, despite what people were saying on here, were never much fancied to beat the israelis. So progression was better than many expected.

Fingal were on a hiding to nothing, but gave a good account of themselves.

Bohs people would have expected to progress, and be competitive in the next round.

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Originally Posted by paudie

Currently down to 31st according to bert. Have to keep an eye on the Hungarians.

Not sure if our champions will be seeded in the first round of the CL next year.

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Gyor and Debrecen play Dinamo Zagreb (just knocked out by Sherriff Tiraspol) and Litex Lovech respectively to get into the UEFA Cup groups. You'd give them a decent chance of getting through one of those ties. Don't know how bonus points work, but with double points in the groups, you'd imagine that'd be enough to see them ahead of us alright. That'd have us in 32nd; 33rd would mean the league runner-up would have to start a round earlier. Not unthinkable that Tiraspol could have a good campaign - FC Basel in the CL qualifier with a guaranteed UEFA Cup group spot if they lose; they could pass us out too.

Seeding depends on who's in what tournament, and who has individual points to add to national points. I'd say only Pat's or Bohs would be seeded, but way too soon to tell.