Germany vs England

I agree with Stutts. That disallowed goal was important - one can never say how it would have gone after that. I would be gutted if I were an English fan. Sure Germany were the better team but that doesn't mean their would have won as their 3rd and 4th goals were catching England on the break. What was the point in England pushing so many players up for Lampard's shot since he wasn't going to cross the ball and they then get caught on the break. Capello has a lot to answer for and as for bringing on Heskey with 15 minutes to go - baffling.

As for the anti-BBC Panel brigade, they must be very disappointed as they were very scathing of the whohe team performance from manager to players to system.

Shaker, why did you want to hear what Dunphy says? Isn't is predictable except he wont mention that he recommended people to back England before the tournament! I am sure he is being kept back for this evening so he can really lay in once the game was over. I thought it was great to see that Brady still felt the anger and hate most of us still feel for Blatter. It was palpable.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I agree with Stutts. That disallowed goal was important - one can never say how it would have gone after that. I would be gutted if I were an English fan. Sure Germany were the better team but that doesn't mean their would have won as their 3rd and 4th goals were catching England on the break. What was the point in England pushing so many players up for Lampard's shot since he wasn't going to cross the ball and they then get caught on the break. Capello has a lot to answer for and as for bringing on Heskey with 15 minutes to go - baffling.

As for the anti-BBC Panel brigade, they must be very disappointed as they were very scathing of the whohe team performance from manager to players to system.
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No matter about the goal that wasnt was.............England still had 45 minutes of a game to do something. They were rubbish in all their games.

And the BBC only slashed into the team AFTER they were knocked out...........................

BBC R5 Live was quiteb good just now (nearly 7pm) - David Pleat criticising England's "straight line" football and the whole English footballing culture. The writing was on the wall in May, when both Mexico and Japan outplayed them. Japan & Korea are motre techgnically adept than England.

Did Martin Tyler really blame foreigners? Foreigners set the standard in the EPL and allow the few English players with real talent to shine.

Schweinsteiger was a joy to watch tonight. I hope Darron Gibson was taking notes. I also hope Wim Koevermans knows the shortfalls of the UK / Irish way of developing players.

Capello has to take SOME of the blame for this but ultimately England were not good enough and never were going to be good enough to win this World Cup because they simply did not have the players to do it. They have a lot of useless players, a lot of average players, only a few players who would get into the best sides in the tournament (Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Rooney, maybe Lampard). But Rooney had a nightmare World Cup and today was his worst performance of the four, Gerrard has never played Left Midfield, Rooney had an awful tournament for some reason, Lampard is nearing the end of his time.

How the hell was Glen Johnson left on for 87 minutes, the man was absolutely sh1te!! £20 million me boll1x. He should have clipped Sweinsteiger's ankle and taken a yellow card in the build-up to the 3rd Germany goal. England's wingers don't play on the wings week in week out which doesn't help at all. Capello left Adam Johnson at home and refused to play Joe Cole from the start.

Not once during the qualifying campaign did Capello play the starting team that England went with in the Slovenia and Germany (Even if you don't include Ferdinand/Upson in that, not once did the other 10 ever start a qualifying game together). Also I'm fairly sure Defoe and Milner started none of the qualifiers.

The subs England had had nothing to offer either - SWP, Heskey(how he played nearly all the qualifiers and friendlies is unbelievably mind boggling!), Carra is well past it, Carrick is brutal, Crouch is not good enough, King is crocked...

Just a point on the Lampard "goal": I presume it's well known among football watchers (I can't be alone in noticing it) that when a shot hits the underside of the bar and bounces straight down, the spin on the ball takes the ball back into play. I always use as a "rule of thumb" how far the ball bounces back into play to form an instinctive idea as to how close the ball was to the line. In this instance the ball bounced back up into the crossbar and if I was ref I'd have given the goal on that basis alone. It's just a fact of physics.

Momentum is huge and with two goals in two mins, even the germans wouldve been rattled. Who knows?? Yes the germans were by far the better team but at that point England wouldve been rampant and its not inconceivable that they wouldve even gone ahead before half time. The Germans didnt exactly look rock solid at the back themselves. Having said that, even if England were allowed the goal, it still doesnt excuse how poor they were defensively. John T was caught extremely deep for at least two of the goals which left them exposed for, 1 the long ball goal and 2, on the break at the third goal.

On the bounce of the ball, on first viewing i wouldve said the ball wasnt over the line the way it bounced straight back up and hit the bar, so although it might have credence I think using the general bounce of the ball to determine if the ball was over the line are not is far from definitive.

Another shocker this evening in the Mexico game which has seriously swung the game in Argentinas favour. Tevez well offside for the first goal, not even a doubt about it. But it was interesting to note that the linesman and ref appeared to see the replay on the large screen and realised how wrong they were but still refused to disallow the goal.

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Originally Posted by elroy

But it was interesting to note that the linesman and ref appeared to see the replay on the large screen and realised how wrong they were but still refused to disallow the goal.

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God forbid it should be proven how fast and effective video technology is. Can't be having that!

Incidentally, Sepp Blatter was clearly offside here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu7i5CJq3mg

Look at the England players at the end of the game compared to the South Korean's and American's after their losses. Shrugs from the England players and swapping of jerseys. They knew they never put in a decent shift. Too many professional bluffers on that England team. And Germany won't beat Argentina. So they will have gone out with two draws against the US and Algeria. A slender win against Slovenia. And a loss to a team that will almost certainly get knocked out in the quarters themselves.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Just a point on the Lampard "goal": I presume it's well known among football watchers (I can't be alone in noticing it) that when a shot hits the underside of the bar and bounces straight down, the spin on the ball takes the ball back into play. I always use as a "rule of thumb" how far the ball bounces back into play to form an instinctive idea as to how close the ball was to the line. In this instance the ball bounced back up into the crossbar and if I was ref I'd have given the goal on that basis alone. It's just a fact of physics.

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Your comment is fair stutts but on the basis of the ball bouncing back up onto the top bar , i wud have thought it was more a goal. I dont blame the ref or the linesman for missing it, but it yet again it calls for video technology.

Germany were by far the better team over the 90mins and especially over the first 30mins BUT as they say Goals change games , and whereas england still probably wud have lost ....its the "ya never know" factor that still will linger , in the same way we "MAY" have beaten france on penos.


Watching argentinas first goal tonite against mexico and wat b*llsh*t it was......i just felt annoyed and embarassed for football

anyone else think it's ironic that Blatter saw Lampard's goal that wasn't given on the replay in his private box?

Clearly technology, ie more and better cameras is exposing more and more mistakes made by officials, when a goal or lack thereof is disputed the ref should have access to video technology via an official, also in other key decisions such as sending offs.
It is getting quite farcical the number of potentially game changing decisions which are being shown to be wrong.

I thought that had Lampard's goal been given, England would have bossed the game until the break. The Germans were clearly and deeply rattled, worryingly for them.

However, after the break, England had 45 minutes in which they simply HAD TO perform, or they were out. But they didn't. Whether it's a technical or a mental problem, they were not able to perform. They must have known after the group stage games that they needed to raise the performance, or they'd be out, but they turned in another pretty rudderless and spineless 90 minutes.

Southgate made an interesting point on ITV's hightlights tonight - saying how 5 of the German U-21 team from the last Euro (or was it World) championships were in the squad, with 4 playing, whereas England had only Milner and Hart. Basically, they German U-21 players got a lot of game time to help them develop (not all did, obviously), whereas with stakes so high in England (in terms of getting sacked after just a few games) managers don't want to risk selecting these players.

FATTYK!

N.Muntz springs to mind. if only for all their patronising 'meedja'.

Outside of Ireland and the UK England are looked on as similar to the Danes, Swiss, Sweden, Austria etc, etc. They are not feared or ever talked about as World Cup winners. Nobody, especially the South American's take them seriously. What exactly do they bring to the World Cup? The self-pitying crap does not travel well. I feel sorry for people like Lampard who did put in a shift. But Germany should have been 4-0 up before England scored. And anyone who thinks the Germans would have cracked if the legitimate Lampard 2nd goal had of been given is watching too much Sky.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I thought that had Lampard's goal been given, England would have bossed the game until the break. The Germans were clearly and deeply rattled, worryingly for them.

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I'm not so sure about this. You have to take into account how quickly the two England goals came - weren't they like 53 seconds apart? Once the goal was disallowed, the Germans reverted to type. They were clever and closed the half out without giving anything else up. They were mature from that point on, even when England dominated the first 10-15 minutes of the second half.

I wouldn't say the goal being disallowed was irrelevant, but I think in the context of the game Germany showed a maturity and composure that England didn't and that, in my estimation, would have won them the game regardless.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I feel sorry for people like Lampard who did put in a shift.

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He was slightly less anonymous than usual, I forgot he was playing against Algeria until he came over to take a corner. Barely noticed him against the USA and Slovenia. If it wasn't for the goal-that-wasn't I probabl wouldn't have noticed him tonight either.

away from the discussion of the game, it struck me that Capello speaking to Scholes about going to the World Cup meant he didn't think the midfield players he had were up to the challenge of playing in the tournament. Had Scholes gone, where would have played, and who would have been dropped?

I agree about the Algeria game (and the US game). But for me he showed up tonight. He is not a world class player and never will be. But unlike spoofers like Ashley Cole, Terry and Gerard he at least showed for the ball and tried to change the game. How bad was Cole over the four games? A disgrace to himself and football. And Gerard has never been and never will be anything other than a Bell, Lee, and various other England players throughout the 70's/80's/90]s. No guile/wit. And i don't believe for a second that Mourinho is trying to sign him.

:D

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8381/2zp2qag.jpg

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Originally Posted by The Fly

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2301/outofafrica.jpg

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Can you re-submit please?


And now even that pr*ck Cameron calling for 'goal-line technology'! Though as he's posh, very posh Scot, will forgive marginally.