Queen of England to visit next year

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Originally Posted by Cymro

Quick point: she's the queen of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and the Commonwealth territories, not the Queen of England. Calling her Queen of England is ignorant at best, and at worst offensive to her millions of other subjects who also consider her their queen but are not English.

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Ohh dear.

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My experience of Welsh nationalism leads me to believe that there'll be a few idiots if she visits the Republic, but hopefully it will be a generally constructive visit.

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How would having a Monarch visit our country possibly be constructive?
Our country is skint enough as it is without having to wine and dine a throwback to feudalism, but sure who needs meritocracy when you have nepotism.

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Originally Posted by Rasputin

I was hoping for that answer.
I am fully aware as to where the term comes from, what I was hoping for was some enlightenment as to the relevance of the quote in this given context?

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Weeeeel, the paragraph after the quote suggests modern "we hate the Brits" republicanism is a b'stardisation of the United Irishmen's republican principles, with which Emmet was associated. Thus, the intent is to invite our fellow readers to conclude, if they concur, that Irish republicanism can only be true to its origins and Ireland can only ever be a republic when we act as a mature, responsible state and don't look on others with historical hatred (the "up the 'ra" brigade), or ourselves as grovelling wretches (the "'twas a bad day we left the Commonwealth" or the beal bocht "we can't afford to pay for this" brigades).


You sought enlightenment; that can only come from within. But I humbly offer you this explanation to help you on your quest! God speed you, my friend!


Now, as to why we should value state visits, may I suggest international comity, diplomacy, trade and tourism for starters. To bemoan state visits on the basis of cost is the kind of reasoning that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

To bemoan state visits on the basis of cost is the kind of reasoning that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

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Nobody has done that in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Eminence Grise

Weeeeel, the paragraph after the quote suggests modern "we hate the Brits" republicanism is a b'stardisation of the United Irishmen's republican principles, with which Emmet was associated. Thus, the intent is to invite our fellow readers to conclude, if they concur, that Irish republicanism can only be true to its origins and Ireland can only ever be a republic when we act as a mature, responsible state and don't look on others with historical hatred (the "up the 'ra" brigade), or ourselves as grovelling wretches (the "'twas a bad day we left the Commonwealth" or the beal bocht "we can't afford to pay for this" brigades).

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Alot of wild assumptions being thrown around there.
How did you come to the conclusion that modern Republicans are indeed just "anti-brits"?
I know alot of them, including English born Republicans and they certaintly dont fit into your nice two dimensional perspective on Republicanism.
And you are insinuating that Irish Republicans rejecting the Queens visit on a principled political stand point is indeed immature and acting as an irresponsible way and looking at the institution that is the British Monarchy with "historical hatred"?
You do realise that one of the corner stones of Republicanism was indeed the abolishment of institutions of Nepotism such as the Monarchy and the irony of you and others of your ilke using a Republican icon to somehow validate your arguement in accepting that relic from Feudalism, it boggles the mind.
The Republic of Ireland and its people should be able to reject the Queens visit on a principled political perspective in opposition to the sectarian, insestual and nepotistic institution she holds.

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You sought enlightenment; that can only come from within. But I humbly offer you this explanation to help you on your quest! God speed you, my friend!

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I still am none the wiser as to the wisdom of accepting and validating that institution that should have been abolished a century ago.

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Now, as to why we should value state visits, may I suggest international comity, diplomacy, trade and tourism for starters. To bemoan state visits on the basis of cost is the kind of reasoning that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

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Does this international community include the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan which her Army (as she is officially the head of it) has invaded, raped, pillaged and plundered over the past few years?
Or do we just shake hands with the White guys aye?
A fairly linear perspective one the international community their pal, its not so much as international diplomacy more so bending over for who ever is the latest super power.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

No doubt the residents of Dun Laoghaire will be out in force, along with the rest of the "Jackeens" to re-create the warm welcome they gave to Liz's predecessors.....!

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Doubt that somehow! Although in these recessive times we live in she might end up having to get the ferry across.

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Originally Posted by Rasputin

Alot of wild assumptions being thrown around there.
How did you come to the conclusion that modern Republicans are indeed just "anti-brits"?
I know alot of them, including English born Republicans and they certaintly dont fit into your nice two dimensional perspective on Republicanism.
And you are insinuating that Irish Republicans rejecting the Queens visit on a principled political stand point is indeed immature and acting as an irresponsible way and looking at the institution that is the British Monarchy with "historical hatred"?
You do realise that one of the corner stones of Republicanism was indeed the abolishment of institutions of Nepotism such as the Monarchy and the irony of you and others of your ilke using a Republican icon to somehow validate your arguement in accepting that relic from Feudalism, it boggles the mind.
The Republic of Ireland and its people should be able to reject the Queens visit on a principled political perspective in opposition to the sectarian, insestual and nepotistic institution she holds.

I still am none the wiser as to the wisdom of accepting and validating that institution that should have been abolished a century ago.

Does this international community include the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan which her Army (as she is officially the head of it) has invaded, raped, pillaged and plundered over the past few years?
Or do we just shake hands with the White guys aye?
A fairly linear perspective one the international community their pal, its not so much as international diplomacy more so bending over for who ever is the latest super power.

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Of course "Queen Mary" is technically commander-in-chief of our army, so similarly blaming Queen Elizabeth for a ceremonial leftover from when royals led armies into battle is fairly shaky, the buck stops with Blair alone. Monarchies are outdated, but that's for each nation to judge, there wouldn't be much comment if the Kings of Norway or Swaziland visited.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

there wouldn't be much comment if the Kings of Norway or Swaziland visited.

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I've recollection of recent visits by several Monarchs. I don't remember protests, but that doesn't mean there weren't anyway.

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Originally Posted by Cymro

Quick point: she's the queen of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, and the Commonwealth territories, not the Queen of England. Calling her Queen of England is ignorant at best, and at worst offensive to her millions of other subjects who also consider her their queen but are not English.

My experience of Welsh nationalism leads me to believe that there'll be a few idiots if she visits the Republic, but hopefully it will be a generally constructive visit.

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Yeah right................Most people mean England
"her subjects" - what? You mean the Welsh and Scottish - lol

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

Yeah right................Most people mean England
"her subjects" - what? You mean the Welsh and Scottish - lol

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The Australians, the Kenyans, the Canadians... They're all partial to a bit of monarchy

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

The Australians, the Kenyans, the Canadians... They're all partial to a bit of monarchy

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They're also extremely partial to not being described as subjects. Like every other normal human being

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Originally Posted by Dodge

They're also extremely partial to not being described as subjects. Like every other normal human being

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They should have thought of that the last time they voted to retain a monarchy.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

They're also extremely partial to not being described as subjects. Like every other normal human being

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the Canucks love their Queen and the Royal Family, borderline obsessive in a lot of cases. I live in a city called Regina... just off Prince of Wales Drive....

But they're not normal here so fair point.


edit: Im still waiting an answer to Rasputins question on how exactly the Queens visit can be "generally constructive". If anything i can see it being the opposite.

Of course the real danger is that all the media attention will ensure some kind of protest action if, and when, she comes. Hopefully most of us are comfortable enough in our own skin to ignore the visit, as we would any other visiting head of state. Can't see who'd be bothered turning out myself but it takes all sorts.

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Originally Posted by Docboy

Of course the real danger is that all the media attention will ensure some kind of protest action if, and when, she comes. Hopefully most of us are comfortable enough in our own skin to ignore the visit, as we would any other visiting head of state. Can't see who'd be bothered turning out myself but it takes all sorts.

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thats exactly what i was getting at in my post above.

I think it's more hassle than it's worth. I'd imagine there'll be a large scale protest organised by RSF and other republican groups. It'll probably end up with a riot in the city centre like what happened with the Love Ulster parade.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I think it's more hassle than it's worth. I'd imagine there'll be a large scale protest organised by RSF and other republican groups. It'll probably end up with a riot in the city centre like what happened with the Love Ulster parade.

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fair point if the place went ballistic for love ulster parade ... imagine response to queen going up o'connell street :D