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Great???? Half of the European teams who have qualified are bloody awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny82
They don't qualify because they're crap. And why stop there? Why not just let all 53 countries into the finals so San Marino and Andorra have a genuine chance to qualify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny82
Well we all rave and are happy to watch a world cup with many teams that are sub standard to many European teams. So in many ways an increased Euros will be more competitive than the early stages of a WC.
In any case, the most important thing from an Irish perspective is an increased chance of a top international tournament every 4 years, that sells it for me! At best, its going to be 10 years since we last qualified for a major tournament before we do it again, we need regular qualification so to ensure that the upcoming generations also get to enjoy tournaments like we have been fortunate to experience in the last 20 odd years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyCakes
Ireland, Russia, Croatia, Sweden are better than alot of teams that are at the World Cup which iswhy I feel more teams in the Euro's would make it better. The standard of the European teams so far has been poor, granted, but that's not the point I was making in my pre-world cup post!!!
With regards to the second point you made, this was just Stupid!!!
The teams you mentioned may be better than the New Zealand or Cameroon team (for example) but that's because European football is of a higher standard in general than football from the regions those teams are from, and the WC is a competition for teams of all regions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny82
With a tournament for teams who are all from only one region, the comparison is no longer relevant, and I don't see how adding teams 17-24, who were too weak to qualify under the old system, will make the Euro Champs 'better'.
It'll make it easier for teams to qualify, and dilute the overall quality of the competition.
24 teams. Eurovision are diversifying into football it appears.
Don't forget there's only 13 (I think?) european teams in the World Cup, so straight away you get the next three best teams into the Euros.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Sorry, I don't follow your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Lenny was saying that there's teams at home that would improve the World Cup, so it's right to exapnd the Euros. But the 16-team Euros will allow more European teams than the World Cup anyway, so his point is diluted.
Who cares what the overall standard is like if Ireland aren't present?, isn't the whole point of it to watch your own country... or other countries if your bored and hanging around the house during the summer(i wouldnt put other things off to watch any of these games).Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Basically every game in this WC so far has been complete garbage, the only way i could happily sit through one of these games is if Ireland were playing.
I don't understand why people are against this on the basis of quality of the other games, do people prefer to watch other countries play then Ireland?
Not necessarily, as Poland and Ukraine qualify automatically as hosts for 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Look, adding 8 extra places for the Euro's will not drastically affect the quality or watchability as alot of the games won't be any worse than say Honduras v Chile today. If anything, it will make the latter stages of the qualifiers more entertaining as teams that would normally be out of contention, may still have a shot of qualification and instead of trying out youngsters to build for the future, their last few qualifiers will be competitive affairs!!! Thats just my opinion.
I'm not too hot on the change to 24 teams. I'd align myself with those such as endabob who see it as devaluing the achievement. Qualification from third place in a group of five or six wouldn't really be an achievement at all, especially if you just happen to get lucky in the play-offs. Let's consider what the ROI or NI, as current third seeds, might possibly be able to qualify with.
Ireland's group for Euro 2012: Russia, Slovakia, Rep. Ireland, Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra.
Ireland could feasibly get 14 points from that group, finish third, and beat another third placed team (Northern Ireland, perhaps) 1-0 over two poor quality legs, to qualify. By the way, I'm not trying to make any point by using Northern Ireland and the Republic as examples, I simply used them because they are familiar to all who use this board.
To take Wales's group (we have a group of five with England, Switzerland, Bulgaria, and Montenegro), I reckon maybe eight or nine points could be enough to finish third in that, if England and Switzerland win most of their games as expected. I wouldn't want to qualify with that, it would be a joke.
However, in support of it, you'd have to say it probably won't significantly dilute the quality of the finals. The teams who don't make the cut at the moment may have very bad campaigns or be in bad form, but they are not necessarily bad teams as such. I reckon we'd put up a decent show if we were at the World Cup (assuming we had everyone fit), despite finishing a distant fourth in our group. In major tournaments the form book goes out the window.
It's a bit silly to assume that matches between smaller nations will necessarily be less exciting. Some of the dullest games you'll see are between two top teams who won't give an inch.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyCakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymro
But isnt it better to see quality footballers playing decent football, rather than a game littered with bad defending and jokey football?
Well, as a neutral, whilst I enjoy watching good football, watching exciting, end-to-end football, where both sides attack and are desperate to win for national pride, and where drama and tension are high, is generally more important, regardless of the standard.
However, as I said, I don't think expanding the Euros will really affect the overall quality all that much. Most of the teams that'll come in won't be any worse than the smaller teams that are making the grade at the moment. The main argument against expanding the Euros, in my view, is that it will make the achievement of qualifying cheaper.
and it'd make the chances of a big team not qualifying like England in '08 zero.
it also makes the chances of smaller nations staging the tournament almost zeroQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
My beef with the 24 team system is that you play so many games to lose just 8 teams in the first round, once you win a group game you're virtually sure to be in the last 16 which will lead to teams resting players, and lots of room for uncompetitive games.
The argument put forward that because we should qualify more often will lead to us having improved standards is a moot one, the same can be said for all the other teams at our level, so while we might improve relative to the weaker teams we will be no different to Scotland, Norway etc.... in that regard imo.
The last point about hosting it is a good one. It means were likely to see either more dual hosts which I hate, because it gives countries like Poland & Austria free reign when in reality they would struggle to qualify by rights or else you effectively limit the hosting to 5 or 6 countries which is again far from ideal.
Obviously I want Ireland to qualify so from that perspective its great I just think from the bigger picture perspective, it's a bad idea.
Dunno about that. The World Cups from 86-94 were held the same way and they were hardly uncompetitive.Quote:
My beef with the 24 team system is that you play so many games to lose just 8 teams in the first round, once you win a group game you're virtually sure to be in the last 16 which will lead to teams resting players, and lots of room for uncompetitive games.
The joint-host system will allow some of the smaller nations to host games. Austria and Switzerland hosted Euro 2008 and neither would be considered big teams. Austria had never qualified for the Euros before that tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Ukraine, quarter-finallists at the last World Cup but missing this time cos they lost a play off? Sounds exactly like the kind of country you want to add to the competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny82