Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez, I'm genuinely puzzled by what you say. First, as we've discussed many times, the atmosphere at NI games in the 70s and 80s was much worse than now. Reflecting both the greater degree of violence and tension locally, and also bigger crowds and the wider problem of hooliganism. This wasn't really covered in the outside media, but I remember as a kid going to matches how edgy the atmosphere could be.
Well as I never went to the games I wouldn't know either. And as you pointed out, neither was it mentioned in the media. The consensus was, right up to the decline of the NI, that it was the only place in Ireland where nationalist and unionist stood shoulder to shoulder.
The truth as you knew then, and I knew from around 1981, was different. I used to get Shoot! and there was a letter in there from a unionist kid circa 1981 who already pointed out that far from this being the case, most RC kids he knew supported the south. Blimey! Even in the days before the Republic existed as some of the dorks on ourweeminds would like to believe. My first game was in September 81 and I remember NI based supporters then. Perhaps not enough for a dozen Ulsterbus coaches that clogged the roads around Lansdowne Road at the Czech game in 94, but sufficient to tell me that something was amiss with the NI team. Dropping the NI was political. I just don't support British teams.
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
And you haven't forgotten the death threats to George Best or the Provo bombs at Windsor, I hope.
You haven't forgotten about Loughinisland 94? Six people shot in the back watching the Italy v Ireland game. Doesn't get much of a mention on ourweeminds does it? 'Oh but they weren't NI fans!' :rolleyes: Were the provos who threatened Bestie (didn't the UDA/UVF threaten him aswell? Something in the back of my mind tells me this was the case?) or planted the bombs, RoI fans. Is there a point to your statement?
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
You're indifferent to NI results? This is a joke, right? You're obsessed by them! As evidenced on this forum again and again.
You think I look up to see how Northern Ireland are doing? Take it as read DG, but I don't. I've been to one NI game in my life that didn't include the Republic. And you know the reason why I went to that particular game.
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
But you dislike the 'Tans' more. Well, thanks very much for that. Most of the rest of us have moved on from the Anglo-Irish War, as it ended about 40 years before you and I were born, like.
The Anglo-Irish war has continued in a mutated form up until 1998. Perhaps, surprisingly for a proto-Marxist, you follow the British line that the Northern Ireland 'troubles' were a classic example of intra-national 'tribalism' with the poor, impartial, Tommy in the middle keeping the peace, but there are others that see this as a conflict over nationalism, exasperated by British cowardice, a botched partition and a sectarian one party muppet state financed and approved from 'the mainland'. BTW, this isn't just the SF line, but also that followed by Fine Gael and the Irish Labour Party during the conflict and led to the Anglo-Irish agreement of 1985. Difference was that the latter didn't see how blowing people up solved anything.
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Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
I'm sorry you and your friends were glassed in a Kilburn pub, but does the entire English nation have to carry a stigma for this ad infinitum?
Ahhhhh? The old anti-British line. Just when you think that DG has a brain, he reverts to type. U can take da bwoy out ov da 'hood but u can't take da 'hood out ov da bwoy? Seeing that you've read my previous posts (you tried to have them erased remember) this piece of stereotyping is not worthy of any response except this: I pay my taxes and used to pay top rate NI contributions. If you don't like what I say, then vote BNP.
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
A few years before that, I was in a pub in Wembley (the Windermere, you probably kow it) one Saturday evening just after an England- Scotland game. I'd been, but everyone else was just gathering for an engagement party. Many were completely indifferent to the match. That didn't stop my friend Janet taking a pint glass in the face when some English and Scots lads kicked it off. Do I drone about Culloden or Bannockburn as a result? No.
:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Moving forward to 1997, when we met on that wet and windy night in Cardiff for the 0-0 draw. Am I right in thinking that when you were thumped at that game, it was by a fellow Irish 'fan' who objected to your London accent? If so, shouldn't you consistently apply the same censure to your own team as you do to England and Northern Ireland?
Well as I have previously explained, this was an altercation between two Irish fans. As I don't remember meeting you, it probably also had something to do with me being very p*ssed. So you never had a row or a punch up with one of your fellow fans? If you had one would it stop you supporting NI?
The difference between that and Kilburn is that that was a premeditated attempt to injure fans on the basis that we are all IRA supporters. Are we all IRA supporters DG? The attack was classical English hooligan cowardice. Creep up on a quite bar then blitz it from the outside. No attempt to get in though. Might pick up an injury...or damage the Stone Island.
Shame, but probably not unsurprising, that you can't see the difference here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
By the way, though I normally support whoever you are playing, there are exceptions. Scotland and England, obviously...
Can't believe that? DG calling me anti-English and supporting his biggest rivals against the English suggests an amount of hypocrisy on your part. Why the anti-Englishness DG? Or is it just a case that it's alright to be anti-English only if you have a British passport.
Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
...but as Davros will remember, also the Dutch in qualifying for WC 2002. I wasn't happy at the way they tried to get round a current drugs ban for at least one of their players. Anyone got a duster for my halo? :)
Can we have that w*nker smilie added on here please, Adam?
