Difficult to control the ball in midfield in international football

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

I'm sorry, but we had Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid playing for Ireland before. Stephen Ireland was in the team that got hammered out in Cyprus. His main highlight of that campaign apart from the goal in the dead rubber match against Wales, was the winner in the 5th minute of injury time against, wait for it, San Marino.

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Every point you've made in this thread is way off the mark - most of this has been highlighted already. So I'll just concentrate on the above snippet.

The Stephen Ireland of today cannot be compared to the Stephen Ireland of 2 years ago. He's become a better player in every facet of the game, ie passing, tackling, shooting, stamina and his confidence is sky high. He's still an arrogant SOB but thats not the point.

Also, Andy Reid - when played by Staunton - was our best player in each game he started last campaign IMO. So to say neither would make any difference is simply wrong.

Emmt 7, you have hit the nail on the head! Doyle and keane are too similar, whats doyle going to do? chase a long abll into the corner and what cross it for robbie keane or the non existant support?

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Every point you've made in this thread is way off the mark - most of this has been highlighted already. So I'll just concentrate on the above snippet.

The Stephen Ireland of today cannot be compared to the Stephen Ireland of 2 years ago. He's become a better player in every facet of the game, ie passing, tackling, shooting, stamina and his confidence is sky high. He's still an arrogant SOB but thats not the point.

Also, Andy Reid - when played by Staunton - was our best player in each game he started last campaign IMO. So to say neither would make any difference is simply wrong.

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Way off the mark? Are you joking? I have been spot on in everything I've said.

I'd have Reid in the squad, I wouldn't have him on the first team though. But we have a settled team now, which is fairly solid. The major criticism of the Stauntan era was how we let teams like Cyprus walk through us. Trap has dealt with that problem with two strong athletic midfielders. We actually scored the same amount of goals in Cyprus under Stauntan and Trap, 2. But the difference was under Stauntan we conceded 5, while under Trap we conceded 1. If Stauntan managed to concede only one goal in Cyprus, he'd probably still be manager.

As for Ireland, we have seen the committment he has shown to the Irish cause. None.

Do we want a player in the squad, who on the eve of a big match he might pull out because he wants to be with his girlfriend, and lie about it, or if someone makes fun of his hair, he'll pull out.

When you are going into battle, you want men. Do you think Roy Keane would pull out of an international fixture because someone made fun of his hair? He'd probably punch them in the face or tell them to shove it up their b*llox. But he wouldn't pull out of the game.

Ireland can't be relied on. Stephen Ireland always comes first, the Irish team second.

As for on the field, did you watch the Manchester derby a few weeks ago? He was missing for long stretches of that game. In other games the same. He is capable of good periods lasting 1 or 2 minutes in a match. And then you mightn't see or hear from him for the next 85 minutes. I have seen his defending in more than one game and it's usually poor. He is no Roy Keane when it comes to tracking back.

Ireland has proved in the last few years when it comes to representing his country, he is just a drama queen.

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Originally Posted by Eh Weh

Emmt 7, you have hit the nail on the head! Doyle and keane are too similar, whats doyle going to do? chase a long abll into the corner and what cross it for robbie keane or the non existant support?

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Thanks. At least you and I can analyse players for ourselves and not wait to see what pundits have to say and parrot that at the water fountain for the next week, month or year.

im sorry now, but emmet7, you know as much about football as pat dolan knows about salad!! no midfielder can find space in international football. deco, pirlo, fabregas, essien, ballack, viera, petrov, xavi, iniesta, riquelme, gerrard, lampard, alonso. no actually your right, they wouldnt have got an inch against montenegro:eek:

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Originally Posted by ronburgundy

im sorry now, but emmet7, you know as much about football as pat dolan knows about salad!! no midfielder can find space in international football. deco, pirlo, fabregas, essien, ballack, viera, petrov, xavi, iniesta, riquelme, gerrard, lampard, alonso. no actually your right, they wouldnt have got a second against montenegro:eek:

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And how do all those players relate to Andy Reid who plays with Sunderland?

It's amazing how he isn't playing for Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, etc, like all the other players if he is as good as you make out.

I'll concede this so, and it's not backtracking but an elaboration of my original point.

It's difficult to find time and space in the middle of the park in international football, but world class players are able to make that time and space. Zidane could do it. Kaka can do it. Ronaldo can do it.

Is Andy Reid in the same bracket as them, or world class? I think we all know the answer to that one.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Way off the mark? Are you joking? I have been spot on in everything I've said.

I'd have Reid in the squad, I wouldn't have him on the first team though. But we have a settled team now, which is fairly solid. The major criticism of the Stauntan era was how we let teams like Cyprus walk through us. Trap has dealt with that problem with two strong athletic midfielders. We actually scored the same amount of goals in Cyprus under Stauntan and Trap, 2. But the difference was under Stauntan we conceded 5, while under Trap we conceded 1. If Stauntan managed to concede only one goal in Cyprus, he'd probably still be manager.

As for Ireland, we have seen the committment he has shown to the Irish cause. None.

Do we want a player in the squad, who on the eve of a big match he might pull out because he wants to be with his girlfriend, and lie about it, or if someone makes fun of his hair, he'll pull out.

When you are going into battle, you want men. Do you think Roy Keane would pull out of an international fixture because someone made fun of his hair? He'd probably punch them in the face or tell them to shove it up their b*llox. But he wouldn't pull out of the game.

Ireland can't be relied on. Stephen Ireland always comes first, the Irish team second.

As for on the field, did you watch the Manchester derby a few weeks ago? He was missing for long stretches of that game. In other games the same. He is capable of good periods lasting 1 or 2 minutes in a match. And then you mightn't see or hear from him for the next 85 minutes. I have seen his defending in more than one game and it's usually poor. He is no Roy Keane when it comes to tracking back.

Ireland has proved in the last few years when it comes to representing his country, he is just a drama queen.

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Ok, fistly in relation to Reid, I was just making the point that he was our best player in a number of games in the 2008 campaign, although thats not saying much. And I actually agree that we should stick with Traps starting team but how he's not on the bench is beyond me. If we needed a goal in any game, he'd be the first man I'd bring on in place of one of the defensive midfielders. He'd bring creativity to a midfield which currently has none.

Secondly, you've went on a long rant about S.Irelands lack of commitment to our country. I never said he should be allowed near our set up. I just stated that there's no doubt he'd be give us an extra dimension if he was part of the squad.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Way off the mark? Are you joking? I have been spot on in everything I've said.

I'd have Reid in the squad, I wouldn't have him on the first team though. But we have a settled team now, which is fairly solid. The major criticism of the Stauntan era was how we let teams like Cyprus walk through us. Trap has dealt with that problem with two strong athletic midfielders. We actually scored the same amount of goals in Cyprus under Stauntan and Trap, 2. But the difference was under Stauntan we conceded 5, while under Trap we conceded 1. If Stauntan managed to concede only one goal in Cyprus, he'd probably still be manager.

As for Ireland, we have seen the committment he has shown to the Irish cause. None.

Do we want a player in the squad, who on the eve of a big match he might pull out because he wants to be with his girlfriend, and lie about it, or if someone makes fun of his hair, he'll pull out.

When you are going into battle, you want men. Do you think Roy Keane would pull out of an international fixture because someone made fun of his hair? He'd probably punch them in the face or tell them to shove it up their b*llox. But he wouldn't pull out of the game.

Ireland can't be relied on. Stephen Ireland always comes first, the Irish team second.

As for on the field, did you watch the Manchester derby a few weeks ago? He was missing for long stretches of that game. In other games the same. He is capable of good periods lasting 1 or 2 minutes in a match. And then you mightn't see or hear from him for the next 85 minutes. I have seen his defending in more than one game and it's usually poor. He is no Roy Keane when it comes to tracking back.

Ireland has proved in the last few years when it comes to representing his country, he is just a drama queen.

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No, but if he was pulled up over a newspaper article he'd walk out of a world cup!!

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

It's a myth that in the modern international game which features the best international players on every team, you get time on the ball to look up, pick out a perfect pass or else hold the ball for a couple of seconds.

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Ever heard of Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi Alonso ?

They are mythical figures in a land far far away.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Ever heard of Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi Alonso ?

They are mythical figures in a land far far away.

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Yup...and remind me how many league titles, Champion's Leagues and European Championships Reid has won again?

I doubt Reid would get in the Barcelona or Real Madrid reserves to be honest.

But I suppose you or someone else is going to tell me Reid is world class because he had one good game against Man Utd. By the way the goal he supposedly set up for Jones against Utd, he overhit the ball and it was straight into Foster's hands, who should have dealt with it far better.

I think people are missing the point a bit here god konws reid wouldn't get near most of the top six's starting elevens but neither would Gibson,andrews, whelan or even the other reid..best of a bad bunch

A good midfielder, will find time on the ball.

You can see this with numerous players, even oshea at united.

Emmet, plenty of teams of all abilities are able to use the ball more better than we do.

Our inability to retain possession starts at the full back position where almost every ball played out is speculative and usually leads to mis-control up the pitch.

Our midfielders are instructed to be behind the ball for the most part so if they're not to play it sideways there's usually a long way to play it to the forwards. I think the reason that Doyle has only scored once in this campaign is because the service has been shocking from midfield. Our CM's job is to feed the wide men and protect the CBs. All our threat comes from long balls or from wide positions therefore.

Lack of ability and vision plays a role too. Ronnie Whelan commented on SKY on Weds just how clever Robbie's running off the ball was and how he found great positions, but the CMs rarely played with their heads up and never once found the pass he wanted.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Doyle has only scored once in this campaign

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Twice. Totally agree with your post though.

There was some difference with our game against Italy, O'Shea hoofed the ball a lot less, unlike the Cyprus game.
Against Montenegro, Miller more often than not was available to take the ball off the back four. It's not his forte, as could be seen with him moving sideways and not much symmetry between him and his midfield partner.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Lack of ability and vision plays a role too. Ronnie Whelan commented on SKY on Weds just how clever Robbie's running off the ball was and how he found great positions, but the CMs rarely played with their heads up and never once found the pass he wanted.

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Something he and reid seemed to have a clear understanding of. Thats not quite the right word it was more a telepathic vision or something but you get the point.

South Africa aren't a highly ranked football team. They've lost a lot of games lately. They totally dominated the ball in Thomond, every single player comfortable on the ball and hungry for it.

Just an example of how it's not just the good teams that use the ball well.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Twice.

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Thanks, forgot he scored in Cyprus.