Great Article By Lawrenson in the Times.

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Originally Posted by The Legend

I'd agree, don't hold it against him just cause he has a 70s gay porn mustache. Anything i've read from him on football usually rings true.

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Hold it against him? It's his finest feature the legend.

I guess you'd like to hold other things against him ;-)

Its an ok article. he's inclined to come out with clichés when talking about Ireland like how could we ever try to compete with teams by actually playing football, we just should rely on steel and determination to get by, the sort who uses the 'good against the bigger teams' statement even though it isnt true.

Ireland can be better. Dunphy is OTT, he is deluded, but that doesn't mean we can't try to play better football. They are pro footballers, it doesnt take great technique to pass the ball and get on it, this comes from management

I hope none of you took one minute out of your lives to read Pat Dolan in the Star. Cringeworthy. He said he knows for a fact that the Italian technical team were shocked that Lawrence was picked ahead of Hunt. FFS. His words were 'Lawrence did OK, but he is a Casino defender'. What compelte and utter Bull. He kept one of the best attacking wing backs in check the whole game. Its not like Hunt is world class at defending. He says Jack Charlton understood the Irish while Trap does not. The most pointless patethic article I have read in a long time. Angers me that we now have this kind of gutter journalism in Ireland

I agree, i did read Pat Dolans article this morning and i taught it was the poorest piece of journalism i've read, he seems to be obseessed with the money Trap is getting, the article makes no sense. A 'casino defender', what does that even mean?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

haha.

Lads, an awful lot of analysts say we had way better players playing among hte top teams in england years ago, the key diference was that they were top players in england but not top players in europe. Italy and to a lesser extent spain were stronger leagues then. Playing in a mid table team now in England is equivalent to the higher teams back then. So now maybe we dont have world class players but i reckon a lot of our players would get into italian teams or spanish teams outside of say the top 2 or 3. its not just 9 teams that have world class players.....

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Not quite true Paul in our team in the 80s we had McGrath, Whelan, Lawrenson, Stapleton and Brady and they certainly were some of the top players in Europe. I have no doubt in my mind we had far better players in the recent past so it's all the more commendable the job Trap has done. If we'd got him sooner we could have qualified for the last 2 euros and the last world cup with a better set of players.

Ya fair point, but how often did all those players play together in games? Again the 90s more so i was thinking when we were doing better, but include hte 80s, how often would brady, lawrenson, whelan and mcgrath played together? lawro and brady were almost gone when mcgrath started to come of age, whelan too really.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ya fair point, but how often did all those players play together in games? Again the 90s more so i was thinking when we were doing better, but include hte 80s, how often would brady, lawrenson, whelan and mcgrath played together? lawro and brady were almost gone when mcgrath started to come of age, whelan too really.

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Any 2 of the 4 would walk rings around our current midfield with all respect to the current team, Brady and Co were real World Class


Lawrenson is spot on with his analysis as usual

The positives from both Italian games are, we really could have beaten the Italians in Bari, thinking of the chance Noel Hunt had. And we really should have beaten the Italians in Croke Park, if it wasn't for some soft goals and basic defensive mistakes.

Those people who say Trapattoni doesn't trust his players to express themselves are probably right. John O'Shea expressed himself by straying up the field. Shay Given wanted to go up for a corner kick. The system fell apart after scoring the second goal and Ireland lost their shape. Some players you have to impose discipline on. They go 2 - 1 up against Italy and they think the Italians are mugs and easily beaten, a basic lack of experience.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

haha.

Lads, an awful lot of analysts say we had way better players playing among hte top teams in england years ago, the key diference was that they were top players in england but not top players in europe. Italy and to a lesser extent spain were stronger leagues then. Playing in a mid table team now in England is equivalent to the higher teams back then. So now maybe we dont have world class players but i reckon a lot of our players would get into italian teams or spanish teams outside of say the top 2 or 3. its not just 9 teams that have world class players.....

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What are you on? English teams were the dominant force in Europe from 1977 to 1985 when they were kicked out.

Liverpool were the top team in Europe in those years. We had several Irish players on the Liverpool team, Whelan, Beglin and Lawrenson, all of whom played in and won the European Cup.

How many of the current Irish team have won the European Cup? Only John O'Shea.

There was also Liam Brady who played with a number of top Italian sides like Juventus.

We had Paul McGrath, Frank Stapleton, and several other Liverpool players like Houghtan and Aldridge, as well as Kevin Moran who played with Man Utd, Niall Quinn who played with Arsenal.

Not only had we players from the top four or five clubs in England, but we had the best players from the top four or five teams in England.

No-one can seriously compare our players of the 1980's with the players we have today. I respect the players we have today and their hard work. But there are no Irish players playing with Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool and only one or two with Man Utd.

The fact is, English teams were more dominant of Europe in the late 70's and early 80's than they have been in the last 10 years. There have been only 3 European Cups won by English teams in the last 10 years. From 1977 to 1985, English teams won 7 European Cups.

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Listen, we just haven’t got the players and anyone who argues that we have a squad brimming with world-class talent is just talking nonsense. It is not true. We have a single player who gets regular football with a traditional top-four English Premier League club – O’Shea. Who would any top-20 team in the world take from us? Apart from Shay Given, who else? Robbie Keane, possibly, when he’s in his best form, but beyond that? No one.

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Surely thats harsh on Dunne

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Not only had we players from the top four or five clubs in England, but we had the best players from the top four or five teams in England.

No-one can seriously compare our players of the 1980's with the players we have today. I respect the players we have today and their hard work. But there are no Irish players playing with Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool and only one or two with Man Utd.

The fact is, English teams were more dominant of Europe in the late 70's and early 80's than they have been in the last 10 years. There have been only 3 European Cups won by English teams in the last 10 years. From 1977 to 1985, English teams won 7 European Cups.

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Back in the 80s the top 4 or 5 teams in England were populated by the best players from Britain & Ireland, with the occasional continental player. Now they're populated by players from all over the world. If the same climate prevailed back then it'd be interesting to see which Irish would have been in a top 4 team. The chances of a Ray Houghton joinging Liverpool from the equivalent of Oxford for example would never happen today.

Putting it back the other way, I think Given, O'Shea, Dunne and Keane would be top 4 players in the 80s.

I really only think that it's in central midfield and left back that we're so desperately lacking in the quality we had "back in the day". In other positions it's marginal. McGeady, Duff (of current status) etc. would have been challenging for places in the 80s / early 90s, if not being definites. Kevin Doyle would have had a great shout over a Mickey Walsh, Michael Robinson, David Kelly, Bernie Slaven, Owen Coyle, old Frank or Tommy Coyne

With regard to England's dominance of Europe, I think they're as dominant now but without winning it as often. The top 4 routinely make the last 8, and 3 out of 4 make the semi's, often having knocked another English team out along the way.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

The positives from both Italian games are, we really could have beaten the Italians in Bari, thinking of the chance Noel Hunt had. And we really should have beaten the Italians in Croke Park, if it wasn't for some soft goals and basic defensive mistakes.

Those people who say Trapattoni doesn't trust his players to express themselves are probably right. John O'Shea expressed himself by straying up the field. Shay Given wanted to go up for a corner kick. The system fell apart after scoring the second goal and Ireland lost their shape. Some players you have to impose discipline on. They go 2 - 1 up against Italy and they think the Italians are mugs and easily beaten, a basic lack of experience.

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Absolutely. I couldn't believe it when I read Shay wanted to go up for a corner. Madness!

We should have done what we did against South Africa, set up 2 banks of 4 and let them play it sideways to no effect.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Why the negative view of Lawrenson (i.e. tosser). I like the guy. Paid by the BBC so he has to take an Englaish slant on things for their games.

What he says in the article is common sense apart from those who make a living from slating Irish managers (whoever they are).

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I think he dumbs himself down too often. He's obviously an intelligent chap, as he tends to pull a superb article out every now and then, but in the main I feel he's over reliant on the double-entendre' or the cheap quip.

When he just focuses on proper detailed analysis he can be excellent. My liking of Benetiz could be clouding my judgement on Lawrenson too though, I'll admit that :)

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Originally Posted by pearse4t3

I agree, i did read Pat Dolans article this morning and i taught it was the poorest piece of journalism i've read, he seems to be obseessed with the money Trap is getting, the article makes no sense. A 'casino defender', what does that even mean?

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I think he's referring to when Grosso shaped to cross at the dead ball line, Lawrence slid in naively and Grosso strolled past him setting up a simple chance which the Italians failed to convert. I don't rate Dolan as a pundit at all but I do think Lawrence can make some naive mistakes.

Also, someone above said O'Shea was the only player on the current Irish team to win the European Cup. Thats wrong - Finnan also won it in 2005 with Liverpool.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Absolutely. I couldn't believe it when I read Shay wanted to go up for a corner. Madness!

We should have done what we did against South Africa, set up 2 banks of 4 and let them play it sideways to no effect.

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Exactly.. But I do think saturdays finale could be a blessing in disguise going into the play offs. Odds are that even had we won we would have wound up in thew play offs regardless. But without the vital lesson you cited above.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Also, someone above said O'Shea was the only player on the current Irish team to win the European Cup. Thats wrong - Finnan also won it in 2005 with Liverpool.

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If we ever see Finnan again. O'Shea didn't kick a ball in the 120mins final when United won it. Finnan came off at half time with Liverpool 3-0 down. Hardly glory nights on a personal level for either player. Not really the point I know.

BREAKING NEWS :

Lawrenson gains almost unanimous consensus on Foot.ie shock

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

BREAKING NEWS :

Lawrenson gains almost unanimous consensus on Foot.ie shock

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I'd like to take responsibility for the almost. I think he's a clown and would prefer to listen to anybody else. I admit I don't read his articles, other than his predictions on BBC, which are generally pretty poor.

I knew I could draw one out of the wood work.