SARI Press Statement concerning Ndo Incident

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theneutral

Maybe my opinions as a result of that whole night have gotten you to thinking that but i stand by them and my reasons for them.
Id have no problem proclaiming myself a rovers fan if i were one (they are the most succesful club this country has after all) but the fact remains that im not.
Not arsed what you think to be honest!!:rolleyes:

---

well then the best i can say is youre letting a personal matter cloud your judgement regarding racism. If you think that is acceptable then knock yourself out. It just serves to make your contribution to this matter highly irrelevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leejo

I'm sure it could be heard by anyone :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fretxesAwI

---

Look at the original match thread and look at just how many people picked up on it! The fact that the game went out live on national television without it being mentioned by anyone until 2 weeks later after a campaign by a Bohs messageboard to try and get SARI to dock Rovers points on the back of 3 or 4 seconds of youtube footage. It hardly had the country up in arms did it now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

For an isolated incident, done by a handful of scumbags? You really think playing two games behind closed doors is the same as McGuinness suspension? Seriously now? Then again Sheridan is in another thread demanding games behind closed doors and for Rovers to be deducted points for lighting flares which was organised with local Gardai and for the heinous pitch invasion behind advertising hoarding on the side of the pitch versus Derry so maybe you do think that it's a proportionate sanction. Anyway, should that happen I'll have a night off to head down Liffey Boardwalk and pay 4 or 5 lovely chaps to wander in to Dalyer, speak their minds and have Dalymount closed for weeks.

FWIW look at the Ultras forum for Rovers fans take on this. A lot of confusion as the vast majority of people in the stand heard nothing (genuinely, I was there) and everyone else saying that the few scumbags who decided to this for about 4 seconds during the game should be given life bans from Tallaght. What more do you genuinely want Rovers fans to say/do?

---

what would you consider a proportionate sanction then Jicked, if i can throw the question back at you, considering you seem to be a decent poster who is willing to acknowledge the issue. My rationale is that someone said the punishment should be similar to McGuiness'. McGuiness was fined and banned for (i think) 5 games. A ban of a player would be similar to a ban for supporters. I dont think it will happen and i would be content with a significant fine, i was just throwing that out there.

On another point, in relation to your second paragraph, a lot of the posters here said that it wasnt racist chanting and that the fans were chanting "boo boo". Thats denial of racism when they obviously heard something.

As decent people, we need to work towards eradicating this sort of behaviour and stop hiding behind excuses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

well then the best i can say is youre letting a personal matter cloud your judgement regarding racism. If you think that is acceptable then knock yourself out. It just serves to make your contribution to this matter highly irrelevant.

---

Irrelevent to you maybe, the all seeing eye of Sauron!

I dont condone racism, or sectarianism as is well documented in another thread. Football fans from Rovers, Dundalk, Derry etc have already contributed with honest evaluations of the incident. A fine will be more than enough by way of punishment and anybody who is demanding any more than that is either insane or a Bohs fan!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

The fact that the game went out live on national television without it being mentioned by anyone until 2 weeks later after a campaign by a Bohs messageboard to try and get SARI to dock Rovers points on the back of 3 or 4 seconds of youtube footage.

---

Ehh, take your own advice there, hoss, and read the thread....it was mentioned on the night. It's far more audible on the TG4 archive than the Youtube clip, and continues for longer. Plainly dozens of people involved.

This is the second time (after the elephant-washing song) this player has been racially abused by supporters of the same club, I don't think a fine is going to be sufficient punishment. McGuinness should have banned for longer, IMO, but at least Bohs suspended him and publicly affirmed their opposition to racism. The fact that the Shamrock Rovers board, so quick to fire out responses left, right and centre to perceived slights in the media, have so far failed to condemn this incident speaks volumes. But this isn't about Rovers, this is about racism, and it's good to see SARI taking a stance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theneutral

Irrelevent to you maybe, the all seeing eye of Sauron!

I dont condone racism, or sectarianism as is well documented in another thread. Football fans from Rovers, Dundalk, Derry etc have already contributed with honest evaluations of the incident. A fine will be more than enough by way of punishment and anybody who is demanding any more than that is either insane or a Bohs fan!

---

well then stop trying to drag this thread off topic, like you did with the last one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

your missing the point majorly or else twisting things to suit yourself. There was no need for any set of fans to email SARI or any other organisation as this was splashed across the media mere minutes after it occurred and drew a major response from the same organisations within days.

---

My point is that Sport Against Racism Ireland appear to have no recognition, condemnation, call for action, indignation or anything else for the incident, publicity or no publicity. So quite obviously, they needed to be informed.

Which I'm sure Bohs fans did in great numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

what would you consider a proportionate sanction then Jicked, if i can throw the question back at you, considering you seem to be a decent poster who is willing to acknowledge the issue. My rationale is that someone said the punishment should be similar to McGuiness'. McGuiness was fined and banned for (i think) 5 games. A ban of a player would be similar to a ban for supporters. I dont think it will happen and i would be content with a significant fine, i was just throwing that out there.

On another point, in relation to your second paragraph, a lot of the posters here said that it wasnt racist chanting and that the fans were chanting "boo boo". Thats denial of racism when they obviously heard something.

As decent people, we need to work towards eradicating this sort of behaviour and stop hiding behind excuses.

---

If you want it to be proportional to McGuinness's pathetic punishment then the handful of perpetrators should be banned for 5 games each.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seand

If you want it to be proportional to McGuinness's pathetic punishment then the handful of perpetrators should be banned for 5 games each.

---

do you want to be the one who tracks them down? It doesnt work like that and im pretty sure you understand that. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

what would you consider a proportionate sanction then Jicked, if i can throw the question back at you, considering you seem to be a decent poster who is willing to acknowledge the issue. My rationale is that someone said the punishment should be similar to McGuiness'. McGuiness was fined and banned for (i think) 5 games. A ban of a player would be similar to a ban for supporters. I dont think it will happen and i would be content with a significant fine, i was just throwing that out there.

On another point, in relation to your second paragraph, a lot of the posters here said that it wasnt racist chanting and that the fans were chanting "boo boo". Thats denial of racism when they obviously heard something.

As decent people, we need to work towards eradicating this sort of behaviour and stop hiding behind excuses.

---

Jason McGuinness was clearly identifiable as the perpetrator, we don't know who it was who in the Rovers crowd who did this. If Bohs had been forced to forfeit games on the back of McGuinness not being identifiable it would have been ridiculous. Banning 6,000 people from a ground, significantly hitting the local economy on a match night and greatly changing the course of a title run-in because of the actions of a handful is way over the top, and I'm sure the Rovers board would win an injunction at the High Court to stop such an action at any rate.

I denied it happened after the game. I was in that ground, and, honestly, didn't hear anything of the sort. Booing yes, people calling Ndo and every other Bohs player all sorts, but nothing like monkey noises. And I'm not just saying that. If it was dozens of people I'd have heard it, hundreds of others would have. The vast majority of people heard nothing. The media which loves an oul story didn't pick up on it despite it being on national TV and being the most high profile game of the season (one which everyone was watching for re: behavour of fans) The stand isn't that big a place that the chants of dozens, or hundreds would go unnoticed. Especially if it was happening on a regular basis.

What do I think a fair result should be? A proper investigation, not by youtube footage. Go to tg4 and have a listen to their mics, ask Gardaí of which there were dozens in the stand, ask stewards too, if they heard any such, where it came from and why there was nothing done on the night if they did hear it. See did the referee or FAI match day co-ordinator or whatever he's called, noted the noises in their game reports.
If it transpires that they did hear a significant number of fans doing this (again, there was no way it was a sizable percentage of Rovers fans, or hundreds, or dozens) then fine the club and issue a warning as to future conduct.

If it was 3 or 4 knobends I wouldn't fine the club, you quite simply can't hold the club responsible in that situation, like I said before there'd be nothing to stop me rounding up a gang and heading to Dalyer. It's not preventable. Instead I'd get the club to talk with matchday security staff including gardai about removing anyone they see do this from which Rovers would then be able to ban them from any future games, have a word with fans groups about the self-policing of such incidents and continue to highlight the anti-racism/discrimination message that is read out before the teams enter the field of play at every home game and perhaps move the page in the club programme re: anti racism/discrimination to an even more prominent part of the programme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Jason McGuinness was clearly identifiable as the perpetrator, we don't know who it was who in the Rovers crowd who did this. If Bohs had been forced to forfeit games on the back of McGuinness not being identifiable it would have been ridiculous. Banning 6,000 people from a ground, significantly hitting the local economy on a match night and greatly changing the course of a title run-in because of the actions of a handful is way over the top, and I'm sure the Rovers board would win an injunction at the High Court to stop such an action at any rate.

I denied it happened after the game. I was in that ground, and, honestly, didn't hear anything of the sort. Booing yes, people calling Ndo and every other Bohs player all sorts, but nothing like monkey noises. And I'm not just saying that. If it was dozens of people I'd have heard it, hundreds of others would have. The vast majority of people heard nothing. The media which loves an oul story didn't pick up on it despite it being on national TV and being the most high profile game of the season (one which everyone was watching for re: behavour of fans) The stand isn't that big a place that the chants of dozens, or hundreds would go unnoticed. Especially if it was happening on a regular basis.

What do I think a fair result should be? A proper investigation, not by youtube footage. Go to tg4 and have a listen to their mics, ask Gardaí of which there were dozens in the stand, ask stewards too, if they heard any such, where it came from and why there was nothing done on the night if they did hear it. See did the referee or FAI match day co-ordinator or whatever he's called, noted the noises in their game reports.
If it transpires that they did hear a significant number of fans doing this (again, there was no way it was a sizable percentage of Rovers fans, or hundreds, or dozens) then fine the club and issue a warning as to future conduct.

If it was 3 or 4 knobends I wouldn't fine the club, you quite simply can't hold the club responsible in that situation, like I said before there'd be nothing to stop me rounding up a gang and heading to Dalyer. It's not preventable. Instead I'd get the club to talk with matchday security staff including gardai about removing anyone they see do this from which Rovers would then be able to ban them from any future games, have a word with fans groups about the self-policing of such incidents and continue to highlight the anti-racism/discrimination message that is read out before the teams enter the field of play at every home game and perhaps move the page in the club programme re: anti racism/discrimination to an even more prominent part of the programme.

---

The difficulty in tracking the culprits down should have nothing to do with the severity of the sanction, in fact I'd argue the opposite. You'll find the more serious the sanction, the more likely the club will be able to stop it. Funny how it works like that....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theneutral

Doubt there will be a points reduction, it will be left a fine id say.
FAI wont want to be seen to be hypocrites after the Jason McGuinness affair earlier in the season.

Sepp Blatters statement taht clubs/teams should be docked points though is laughable!

Remember the Spain v England game a few seasons ago, the fine was scandalously small and there was at least a third of the Bernabeau that night making monkey at the english lads.
Louise ARagones called Thierry Henry a b*ack sh*t and pretty much got away scott free for that aswell, there has been numerous incidents, of a much higher profile that his organisation have refused or failed to deal with suitably over the last few years.

---

A clamp-down has to start somewhere.

Or should all organisation forever be beholden to their actions, or lack of action, of the past ? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A clamp-down has to start somewhere.

Or should all organisation forever be beholden to their actions, or lack of action, of the past ? :confused:

---

Agreed, but you can surely see the hypocrasy invovled in handing out a more severe punishment to Rovers in the same season they have dealt with another incident of racism, they will have to be seen to follow suit.

Maybe these two incidents will lead to them introducing more stringent rules in respect of such issues but rules which will be ultimatley implemented next season.

Then again this is the FAI were talking about!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

If it was 3 or 4 knobends I wouldn't fine the club, you quite simply can't hold the club responsible in that situation, like I said before there'd be nothing to stop me rounding up a gang and heading to Dalyer. It's not preventable.

---

It may not be preventable, but why wasn't something done on the night about it? Why were the people not pointed out to the Gardai or stewards? Had this been done, at least the Club would have been seen to be taking action.
By not taking any action, Rovers have, IMO, left themselves open to any sanctions deemed necessary.

Just because other clubs haven't been punished for racism doesn't mean that Shams shouldn't be. I know it might seem unfair, but a precedent has to be set, or else these racist scumbags will continue to get away with what they are doing. The response from Shams fans shouldn't be an immature "They got away with it, so should we", it should be "This is unacceptable. How can we stop this happening in the future".

And I'd be saying the exact same thing had it, god forbid, been Bray supporters doing the chanting.

Bohs were fined for one fan referring to an Asian Wayside Celtic player as Bruce Lee in a cup game a few years back. This is miles more serious, and a repeat offence to boot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theneutral

Agreed, but you can surely see the hypocrasy invovled in handing out a more severe punishment to Rovers in the same season they have dealt with another incident of racism, they will have to be seen to follow suit.

Maybe these two incidents will lead to them introducing more stringent rules in respect of such issues but rules which will be ultimatley implemented next season.

Then again this is the FAI were talking about!

---

Nobody is handing out any penalties to anyone at the moment yet.

And FIFA and the FAI are not the same organisation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seand

If you want it to be proportional to McGuinness's pathetic punishment then the handful of perpetrators should be banned for 5 games each.

---

If the other fans didn't ignore and allow the racist chanting to continue perhaps. However, like SkStu, I'd be happy with a significant fine and as I said on the other thread I want to win the league on the pitch not by default.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

If the other fans didn't ignore and allow the racist chanting to continue perhaps. However, like SkStu, I'd be happy with a significant fine and as I said on the other thread I want to win the league on the pitch not by default.

---

What happened at the Rovers Bohs match should never happen again. It was wrong. But forgive us for being sceptical of the Bohs hysteria on this. You only have to go into the jokes section on gypoweb to see a range of Racist Homophobic Sexist jokes. Some of which are by Bohs fans you personally and other Bohs posters here know. So lets see the letters to SARI and the media on this. All racism is wrong not just when its done by people you dont like. You must show consistency even when it doesnt suit to show that you really are serious about it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoops1

You must show consistency even when it doesnt suit to show that you really are serious about it

---

If I heard racist chanting at a game the people involved would know about it.