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In our LC English years ago a lot of the poets tipped to come up didn't, and I truly hated Hopkins so didn't study him either :o, so I was compelled to read a poem and interpret it from what it said, not what I remembered being told it said. The Planters Daughter it was, still remember it, was quite proud of my from-scratch interpretation too! :D Got a B honours in the old money, to the surprise of my English teacher, so I can only assume it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Magicme, when I was applying using the UCAS system a few years ago it was always the top 5 subjects they examined you on rather than the 6 used by the CAO. Have they now changed it across the board to 6 or is it just for that particular course? I'm sure your sister is unlikely to have made a mistake on this but it's worth double checking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
Shift key would be a good start though.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligo23
Thats how it was in my day but it seems the teachers of the present are making them learn reams of stuff off. My sons Junior Cert English teacher has made them learn essays off by heart. Totally spoon fed them to them and told them to learn them. Has knocked all creativity and imagination out of my son.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
They gave her a specific requirement of 1 A & 5 B's for both Queens and Edinburgh.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
was speaking with a teacher about this at the w/end, his comment was interesting : "...those kids don't realise how lucky they are because of the mess up the examiners will now mark the paper very easily...", so your sister should maybe cheer up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
A typical Irish solution to a problem.
now fair enough it is a lot of added and un expected stress, but i dont get this point about losing last minute revision time. Surely what had been planned for saturday am in history could move to where english paper II was originally planned to be sat? It leaves the exact same amount of revision / studying done for both papers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
Not sure how you can change the system to avoid a mistake by one person messing everything up. The more important thing it is there was an attempt to cover it up - Examinations board not inforrmed until late afternoon & not apparently from the person invloved. I presume that official will be removed from that position.
I have absolutely no doubt this has happened before but without mobiles & internet did not spread quickly enough & was more than likely covered up or just not investigated.
I don't get compliants about stress. Life is stressful from time to time so might as well get used to it. If someone wants to make the LC the most important exam of his/her life then so be it but you don't have to.
Slightly off topic... am amazed that the press haven't commented on the fact that the guy who made the mistake is a retired school teacher , in other words he's on a full pension .
I think it's wrong that a former public servant on a full pension can be given such work when we have so many unemployed who could do the job... same should apply to anyone working in count centres.... and while I'm on the subject teachers should not be allowed to run kids Summer camps... they either need 3 months holidays to recover from the stress of their job (well that's what they're always saying) or they don't.
On a more grand scale legislation should be enacted whereby any Civil or Public Servant once they've retired should have their pension redcuced by any earning they receive for other employment and capped at a €26k (the average industrial wage)
e.g A Gardai retires at age 50 on a pension of €38k per annum, he then gets a job earning €10k per annum, in that case he'd have his state pension reduced to €28k
or a hospital porter retires and is on a pension of €16k per annum, they get a job earning €10k pa ie a total of €26k , and in that case they keep their full €16k pension.
With so many on the dole I think the above is a fair and equitable way of ensuring that Public Servants do their bit in a fair manner
AAAAAAnyways back ontopic.
AT the time, I was fuming over this blip, but now I realise that it made sweet FA of a difference. We have the most horrible system of examination, in where the students are under such a ridiculous amount of time over 12 months. Whether its Grinds Schools advertising on the radio to the Supplements in the papers, one can't but help in being bombarded with "You must do well in your Leaving Cert or you are a failure" statements from society.
The recent blip put people off. They had timetables made out, and were rigidly sticking to them. The initial thought of having a paper which could have been made as a direct opposite to the paper which was leaked, coupled with the change in times threw a lot of people, myself included.
What I found was that I was so set in my way and in my train of thought, that the slightest off putting thing completely freaked me out. As it obviously did to Magicme's sister.
The system really does need to be changed. To ask people so young to sit the exams and to undergo the stress while they are still children is barbaric. The idea that students are judged on grades alone to get into college is nonsensical as well as the new "improved" entry into Medicine. What we need is a mixture between the CAO and the UCAS systems. One where you still remain as a number, but your whole personality and life experience should be taken into account.
I don't think your second point is fair, the students do whatever their teacher tells them. It's the teacher who's gaming the system and, at that, they don't have a huge choice since they know their students are competing against others who are at it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I agree with your first point though. The exam gives too much reward to rote learning. That's true in most subjects, not just english. I think history is the worst and (of the subjects I sat) technical drawing, applied maths and accountancy were the only ones where understanding the topic was more important that having huge chunks of knowledge memorised.
As it happens, the system suited me quite well. For whatever reason, I'm able to rote learn huge chunks of text and I managed to get a B in honours Irish despite not being able to put a sentence together in that language. But even at the time I was doing that, I knew I wasn't educating myself.
It may not be right but University exams largely depend on ability to memorise facts so the LC prepares you well for that system. I am unsure what other criteria besides exam grades could be introduced - interviews would be subjective & would benefit people with connections. Likew it or not the current system is the fairest as everyone treated the same.
Could you not have interviews but with a number system.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
In the UK, you're interest in the subject via a personal statement as well as previous work experience and interviews are taken into account.
I can't see why the same couldn't be done here.
[Pedant] Given the fact many, many children throughout the ages have done far harder and both more mentally and physically exhausting work at a much younger age, not to mention what we've learnt from the Ryan report, that hyperbole is rather unnecessary. [/pedant]Quote:
Originally Posted by SligoBrewer
I think there's always going to be that element of 'playing the game,' no matter what system is used. I just accepted this when I was doing exams, either in secondary school or even at university as part of the system itself. If you gamble and it doesn't come off, that's the risk you take and I think many students, myself included, go into exmas knowing the risk they're taking full well.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
The personal statement isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's a necessary part of the application process but it's an open secret that noone is going to get accepted or rejected into a university of the basis of anything they've written on their personal statement. Unless maybe they've written it in crayon. :pQuote:
In the UK, you're interest in the subject via a personal statement as well as previous work experience and interviews are taken into account.
Exactly. At the end of the Day the only major benefit of the UCAS system over the CAO is it lets students know what grades they need to achieve before they sit the exams. With the CAO, you always have to just hope the points don't go up.Quote:
Originally Posted by thischarmingman
Irish Times: Academics worried by 'spoon-fed' students
Gotta say that in the year I spent teaching I was shocked by the inability of the students to think and reason independently.
There's a lot of truth in what the man has to say but I think it's also trendy in academic circles to give out about the state of secondary education. The leaving cert is largely marked on a student's ability to memorise and repeat a curriculum but there are some academics here who go a step worse and mark students on their ability to memorise and repeat the academics' own opinions. Sometimes 'independent thinking' is used as a by-phrase for 'thinking the same way I do'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I agree with what the man had to say here:
Quote:
“I have a concern that, in response, too many of our academic departments at third level are responding to this learned behaviour, not by challenging it but by collaborating in it, even to the extent of worrying grade inflation. We need to seriously re-imagine key levels of our second-level system.”
My poor sister has to do her physics exam in the morning thinking that one of her friends is stable in hospital when in fact she is just being kept alive so that her organs can be used.
Am devestated but have had to act all normal around her so that she doesnt twig that her friend is gone.
Puts silly worries about an English paper in perspective, a beautiful intelligent young lady wont be alive to get her results.
+1. Universities would want to look closer to home before they criticise the LC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
That really puts the whole thing in perspective, the leaving cert is hyped up to be this life changing exam when in the larger scheme of things it's totally insignificant. For one it can be repeated, secondly once you hit 24 you can study as a mature student, thirdly all the academic qualifications in the world won't get you anywhere without hard work and an aptitude for your chosen career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicme
I know I chose my leaving cert subjects as a 15 year old who thought he might want to do engineering in college, at 17 I did a PLC in Journalism at 18 I went to study English in college and by 22 I had decided I couldn't see myself being an engineer, a journalist, a teacher or an academic, so currently I'm a 26 year old civil servant who still really hope to become a professional footballer when he grows up.
I hope your sister gets all that she needs from her exams Magicme and I hope she can cope with the loss of her friend and go on to be a great success.