Injury concerns for Italy

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

They're the current world champions and made the last 8 of the last championship losing on penalties to the eventual winners. While we haven't qualified for anything in 7 years. I wouldn't say its them at a low ebb. Not at their best, sure. But they aren't in tatters and "there for the taking". :eek:

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Do u honestly believe that Italy are as strong as they ever were?? They are far from it. We have beaten them in the past when they (and admitidy us) had a much better team. My point about them being there for the taking doesnt mean that they are a poor side, what I mean is that while they are not currently as strong has they have been over the years and so it is a good time to be meeting them.
Before the game in the USA in the world cup would u have given us any hope of beating them when we had Tommy Coyne playing up front as the lone striker??

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Do u honestly believe that Italy are as strong as they ever were?? They are far from it. We have beaten them in the past when they (and admitidy us) had a much better team. My point about them being there for the taking doesnt mean that they are a poor side, what I mean is that while they are not currently as strong has they have been over the years and so it is a good time to be meeting them.
Before the game in the USA in the world cup would u have given us any hope of beating them when we had Tommy Coyne playing up front as the lone striker??

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because most of us have no possible way of watching serie a atm, we can only judge that squad on paper and compare it to great italian teams with european and domestic medals galore...this squad doesnt compare..obviously as irish fans we want to see positives that make getting points in bari possible...we're not going to be like 'ah lippi has gone for form rather than reputation, we're ****ed now

The grand slam from a football point of view would be four points from the two games. A win against Bulgaria would almost guarantee us the play off spot, with a draw in Italy setting us up nicely for a shot at the top spot.

Say what you like about the current Italian squad, its still a damn good team with a top top manager and will not be easy to come away from Italian soil with a result.
I think we have a chance and really really feel, this is where Trap will earn his money. I really feel that Trap's system will benefit most from the type of game we are likely to play in Italy. Arguably we have more to lose in the first game.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

A draw would be a good result but wouldnt it be great if we could get the attitude of the rugby players into the soccer squad... go out and have no fear of beating whatever team is put in front of u and dont be worrying about reputations.

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Declan Kidney for Ireland! :D

However, It helps if about a third of your team is world-class and the majority of the the other players are top-class and only a few are mediocre.

The starting 11 for the soccer team has arguably no world-class players, 3 or 4 top-class internationals and the rest are mediocre to poor.
Just imagine how good the team would be if we had one world-class defender, one-world class CMF player and one world-class striker added to the squad. Then you could compare it to the rugby team.

Bit of optimism for the Italy game - look at our games against Germany in the last campaign. Germany have performed just as well as Italy in the last few tournaments, and in terms of depth and ability, would also be miles better than us on paper, with a strong domestic league behind them.

In the last campaign, despite having an imbecile in the manager's seat and a completely different midfield both times, there was only one goal between us and Germany over two games. Germany weren't able to cut us up with the kind of pace, particularly out wide, that we often struggle against. I think Italy are in the same mould, and with a bit of luck, and if the team is as well-organised as it should be now, we could grind out a point in Bari. Strange things happen in international football... Northern Ireland beating England and Spain, Scotland doing the double over France...

At the risk of perpetuating clichés, I'd suggest that if we can approach the game with a bit of aggression, and make a scrappy game of it, the Italians might not like it. It worked for Rangers against Fiorentina last year in the UEFA Cup, and (for 80 minutes) for Portsmouth against AC Milan this year.

Having said all that, it'll take a monumental performance from us to get anything out of the game - the players need to believe that they're capable of it.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xdxyo7LiWh...cepalm2ly3.jpg

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Fair enough Ciaran, but u have been writing off any hopes of even a draw in either of the games against Italy for a while now... Im just making the point that they are far from unbeatable

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Originally Posted by elroy

A win against Bulgaria would almost guarantee us the play off spot

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I wish people would stop saying this. :) Bulgaria drew in Georgia. That's the only match that you could really say they dropped points they shouldn't have. If we beat them at home, they could still beat us at home. That still leaves the 2 points in Georgia as the only difference between us and there's plenty of games to make up for that.

Italy needed a last minute goal to deny Scotland qualyfing for last years Euro championships and at those championships they werent anything special.I dont think we should be afraid of them.We have a good history when playing away against the strongest teams in the group and doing well.4 pts out of these 2 games will be great and is definately achievable.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

1 point out of six is as far as I'd go and if I had to make a call I'd say they'd take all 6. Its no secret I rate Italy very highly. ;)

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we'll see, some of ur predictions on this forum in the past have been well off so I wont place any bets in Paddy Power just yet :)

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

1 point out of six is as far as I'd go and if I had to make a call I'd say they'd take all 6. Its no secret I rate Italy very highly. ;)

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your such an astute football guy

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Originally Posted by eamo1

We have a good history when playing away against the strongest teams in the group and doing well.4 pts out of these 2 games will be great and is definately achievable.

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We don't have a good recent history when playing away against the strongest teams in the group. Since the qualifiers for WC 2002 in the 6 games we played away against the top two rivals in our groups we drew two and lost 4. One draw and one loss was against Switzerland. The only creditable result we got was a 0-0 draw against France. Also in the 6 home games against these sides we only drew 4 and lost 2.

So in the last three campaigns from these 12 games and a possible 36 points we only picked up 6 :eek: No wonder we haven't qualified for anything in an age.
However, I do agree that 4 points from these two games is achievable and if we then managed to draw the revers fixtures we would have picked the same points in this campaign against our main rivals as the last three added together.

You can analyse it all you like but sport is sport. If you're in the mix you may sometimes get that bit more than you deserve. The key for us is to stay competitive and who knows what'll happen - a goal from a free or a corner, or a mistake.

I remember thinking when we went to Amsterdam in Sept 2000 with a weakened side and absolutely nobody on the bench that we were in for a hiding. This Dutch team had spanked Yugoslavia a few months earlier and should really have won the tournament, missing 2 penalties against Italy in the SF before a shoot-out.

What happened? We went 2-0 up, 2 great goals and we were well worth it. An error by Harte and a cruel deflection off Carr cost us a famous win, and that after Kilbane missed a great chance to put us 3-1 up. Even the aforementioned Holland vs Italy game - Italy were outplayed yet went through.

Only a month after Amsterdam we played far worse in Portugal but got an opportunistic goal from Matt Holland to get a great draw.

Feckin' Lithuania won 3-0 in Romania recently.

It's sport...that's why I think we may get a result in Italy. I wouldn't bet on it but you'd be daft to rule it out.

It'll be interesting how much street smartness Trap will bring.

Anyway, Bulgaria first.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

And on your point Razor (whatever that was), You can say that about any team, we're not the "great" Irish team we once were, it doesn't mean the likes of Georgia can line up against us thinking "right lads they dont have Roy Keane or Paul McGrath they're there for the taking!"

How about you sit back and take a realistic view of this Italian side and stop looking at what they don't have.

What they do have...

- The best Goalkeeper in the world.
- The best Playmaker in the world.
- One of the largest player pools in the world to choose from.
- A side despite excessive injuries still has 14 champions league players in it.
- Current World Champions (compared to us not qualifying
- Last 8 in the Euros (compared to us not qualifying)
- Ranked 4th in the world (compared to our 20 something)

I'm all for optimism but I think thats better spent in the Bulgarian encounter.

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Ciaran, obviously Italy have better players than we do. That is not up for debate. However, this Italian squad is weak in comparison to the great Italian squads of the past. Even with our own limited pool of players, this still represents our best opportunity for points in what is our most difficult qualifying match.

On your second point - "...Italy has the best playmaker in the world." Errr..........no they don't.

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Originally Posted by The Fly

On your second point - "...Italy has the best playmaker in the world." Errr..........no they don't.

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I would have put Pirlo as the best and most influential player in the world in '06. He's not really been at that level since.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I would have put Pirlo as the best and most influential player in the world in '06. He's not really been at that level since.

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I was aware that he was refering to Pirlo but I would say that was, even at that time, debatable. Anyway, as we are dealing with the here and now, I agree with you on your second point - which is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I wish people would stop saying this. :) Bulgaria drew in Georgia. That's the only match that you could really say they dropped points they shouldn't have. If we beat them at home, they could still beat us at home. That still leaves the 2 points in Georgia as the only difference between us and there's plenty of games to make up for that.

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yep, absolutely, the table as it stands is somewhat misleadding.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

He's magic, and he's been the player I rate higher than anyone else in the world for the last 5 years or so.

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Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

You can analyse it all you like but sport is sport. If you're in the mix you may sometimes get that bit more than you deserve. The key for us is to stay competitive and who knows what'll happen - a goal from a free or a corner, or a mistake.

I remember thinking when we went to Amsterdam in Sept 2000 with a weakened side and absolutely nobody on the bench that we were in for a hiding. This Dutch team had spanked Yugoslavia a few months earlier and should really have won the tournament, missing 2 penalties against Italy in the SF before a shoot-out.

What happened? We went 2-0 up, 2 great goals and we were well worth it. An error by Harte and a cruel deflection off Carr cost us a famous win, and that after Kilbane missed a great chance to put us 3-1 up. Even the aforementioned Holland vs Italy game - Italy were outplayed yet went through.

Only a month after Amsterdam we played far worse in Portugal but got an opportunistic goal from Matt Holland to get a great draw.

Feckin' Lithuania won 3-0 in Romania recently.

It's sport...that's why I think we may get a result in Italy. I wouldn't bet on it but you'd be daft to rule it out.

It'll be interesting how much street smartness Trap will bring.

Anyway, Bulgaria first.

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This man understands international football

Airport strike confirmed as called off.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Even recently he comes alive in sparks and picks passes nobody else in the world could see. In the recent friendly against Brazil in the emirates there was one moment early in the first half which had my jaw on the floor in amazement. He went to the byline near the halfway line, looked up and swung a cross from there across the defence onto either Toni or Grosso's foot for them to slot in past the unsuspecting keeper. It was then ruled unfairly offside as presumably the ref assumed a pass that put the attack in so much space must have been offside.

He's magic

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He must be magic to have done the above :D:D !!
I joke, but he was some player for a couple of years around the 06 WC, Im a big fan and hopefully he re-discovers that class, just not before we play them ;)