Dermot Keely tells it like it is

A Face, somebody saying that the licencing system has been a farce is not whinging, it is a perfectly valid criticism held by (I'd imagine) the majority of LOI fans. Just because it is Keely saying it doesn't make it whinging.

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Originally Posted by A face

Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?

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Each piece of criticism should be dealt with on its merits.

If it is without merit, then the FAI will be able to show it as being without merit and at the same time show themselves as capable of dealing with such kinds of criticism.

If the criticism is merited, it isn't "whinging", and the FAI need to address the criticism in a professional way.

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Originally Posted by A face

Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?

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Because it's human nature to not tolerate suppression of opinion, which will only lead to more whining.

Amazed some people are allowing the FAI the "We're not there yet, but we're getting there" excuse.

I say fine him 5 grand

Keely or A face?

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Originally Posted by SkStu

have to agree with this. The FAI cannot be vilified for not sorting out every issue off the bat. As long as things are improving (i think they are, in general terms) and the FAI learn from their mistakes (we'll see) then the benefit of the doubt should be granted to them that they will get things right sooner rather than later.

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Exactly, its not gonna happen over night. And for people to expect it to happen that fast is our worst enemy. I know the process this year was a mess but what good is it to harp on about it for the next three year.

To be honest lads, if the FAI walk away after the five years then i'd really fear for this league.

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Originally Posted by A face

Can someone give me a decent reason why the FAI should allow constant negative whinging?


What are the benefits and advantages to it?

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As compared to the ****** of "Nothing to see here, move along now" that seems to the line from Abbotstown?

I don't expect it to happen quickly A Face but bar a fancy website and a few comestic changes I really do wonder what the changes have been.

And if the people who care about the game aren't allowed to come out and say what they think then it is time to pack it in.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

A Face, somebody saying that the licencing system has been a farce is not whinging, it is a perfectly valid criticism held by (I'd imagine) the majority of LOI fans. Just because it is Keely saying it doesn't make it whinging.

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Do me a favour, search for all of Keely's articles over the last few years and try and find a positive one. There, in my opinion, is nothing wrong with a perfectly valid criticism being shared, but not when its the only song you can sing.

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Each piece of criticism should be dealt with on its merits.

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Agreed

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If it is without merit, then the FAI will be able to show it as being without merit and at the same time show themselves as capable of dealing with such kinds of criticism.

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They haven't defended themselves at all at times. This is something i'd really really like to improve. I dont know do they fully value the damage that it does.

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If the criticism is merited, it isn't "whinging", and the FAI need to address the criticism in a professional way.

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I'd agree but can you see that there is a difference in 1.) using the proper protocol, process and discussion, debate and inclusion in effort to improve the league and 2.) whinging on a constant basis? Needless whining with no means to an end*



* And i'm assuming we'd all like to see an end to the reasons people have to whinge/criticise

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Originally Posted by Maribor

bar a fancy website

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I make it three fancy websites, by the way. But this one's probably going to be perfect. Nothing can possibly go wrong with it. The FAI are behind it.

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Originally Posted by Maribor

As compared to the ****** of "Nothing to see here, move along now" that seems to the line from Abbotstown?

I don't expect it to happen quickly A Face but bar a fancy website and a few comestic changes I really do wonder what the changes have been.

And if the people who care about the game aren't allowed to come out and say what they think then it is time to pack it in.

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How about give them the benefit of the doubt for the five years planned?

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Originally Posted by A face

How about give them the benefit of the doubt for the five years planned?

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At midnight after 4 days and 365 days is everything going to metamorphose into the perfect league?

Nobody expects things to change overnight, but we do want to see signs that things are moving in the right direction, even if slowly.

Some things are going in the right direction, like MNS for example. But in my opinion licencing hasn't gone in the right direction, and the refusal to acknowledge / deal with criticism maturely is a step in the wrong direction.

The FAI, who I still want to see running the league in the future, need to show some accountability, need to address criticism, and need to show each step (and how that step will be achieved) in their overall plan for the league.

Sorry,

If your basis relates to "benefit of the doubt" there is not point even continuing this debate.

If the clubs have said "Let us keep running the League, we promise it will be different in five years time" would you have believed them?

Or if P1 had "acquired" a franchise to run the League, would you allow them "the benefit of the doubt"

Just because the FAI are now in charge, it doesn't mean that analysis of their performance should not continue?

They have done well in improving the prize fund,CPO,MNS. I am on record countless times praising them for this.

There should be KPI for their performances
- Have attendances improved
- Have stadia improved
- Are clubs more viable than when they took over

We could keep going.....

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Originally Posted by Maribor

Sorry,If your basis relates to "benefit of the doubt" there is not point even continuing this debate.

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Its not Maribor, i'm playing devils advocate if anything.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

The FAI, who I still want to see running the league in the future, need to show some accountability, need to address criticism, and need to show each step (and how that step will be achieved) in their overall plan for the league.

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If the clubs have said "Let us keep running the League, we promise it will be different in five years time" would you have believed them?

Or if P1 had "acquired" a franchise to run the League, would you allow them "the benefit of the doubt"

Just because the FAI are now in charge, it doesn't mean that analysis of their performance should not continue?

They have done well in improving the prize fund,CPO,MNS. I am on record countless times praising them for this.

There should be KPI for their performances
- Have attendances improved
- Have stadia improved
- Are clubs more viable than when they took over

We could keep going.....

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I agree totally with you both. Lads, i'm well able to stick the knife in myself, with less restraint and constructed argument than yourselves. I'm not saying that we should say nothing.

But i stand by my point. I think that Keely, Roddy and their ilk who constantly have nothing to say other that lambaste the league and everything to do with it serves no purpose.

Its the whining for the sake of it that gets me. It will never improve anything and a lot of the time gives nothing tangible to work with, to improve from, to learn from mistakes. Keely might have a point now but he needs to read 'The boy who cried wolf for the millionth time' again.

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Originally Posted by A face

I wish to god that Keely would just go away for about ten years so we dont have to be dealing with the guy.

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Considering at most times he appears to be unaware of the actual decade he is living in we might have to resort to String Theory or maybe even fire him through the Large HADRON Collider in order to try and make him exist within some space-time reality in order so we can satisfy your wish.

He makes me sick personally. There are times I wonder if he is real at all or if Keely is like some subjective quantum projection bending back in on itself which we are all witnessing as punishment for enjoying domestic football.

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Originally Posted by Buile Shuibhne

And we at Shels used to be accused of burying our heads in the sand.:eek:

What goes around, comes around.

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You morethan most, rightfully too.

I'm with the FAI on this. There's absolutel a culture of bitching and whining throughout the league and there's enough people willing to slate the league and it's clubs without doing it ourselves.

Everyone knows the problems within the league but bad press and bad PR is absolutely amongst the biggest of them. Of course they should be busy trying to fix the other problems but there's nothing to say they can't help the legue be run more professional and try and spin things positively.

In saying all that Gavin clearly isn't the man for the job. He's completely out if his depth and his own PR skills are non existant.

By all means fans and commentators should be critical (if needs be) and the Derry fine of Maribor a couple of hears ago was a disgrace. The clubs, and their employees, however should bring all grievances to the league ( or licensing panel) and abide by their decision. I'd absolutely agree that this process should be open and transparent.

Dermot Keely is a hypocritical, loudmouth, clown.

I'm not speaking from a position of any great knowledge, I'm just asking in an interested capacity from abroad (ok, London, hardly Astana):

Is the league not just in a transition process from poor regulation and poor financial management, moving to a new era of tighter regulation and financial & regulatory best practice via the licensing route, the coaching qualification criteria and other steps the FAI has taken following farcical governance faults like player registration errors etc.? I know the FAI would like people to think this way but is this the case? If not, what's the reality? Whose fault is it if Drogheda, Bohs, Cork or whoever can't live within their means? Have I missed the point?

Marketing & PR is a separate issue.

My recollection following the Genesis report on the eL is that the consensus here was that their research was poor but some of the sentiment & ideas weren't bad. Furthermore, articles by people like Paul Rowan simply highlighted that whilst nobody felt everything was rosy, continuous moaning would only lead to one place. This is what this thread seems to be about.

Longer post than necessary, I'm more interested in answers to the top half.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Is the league not just in a transition process from poor regulation and poor financial management, moving to a new era of tighter regulation and financial & regulatory best practice via the licensing route, the coaching qualification criteria and other steps the FAI has taken following farcical governance faults like player registration errors etc.? I know the FAI would like people to think this way but is this the case? If not, what's the reality?

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The fans wail, "Things are worse than ever," the FAI tells us that it's always darkest before the dawn, and some people insist that Keeley's a joker.

What many people fear is that while the appearance of regulation is there, the truth is that licensing is routinely fudged, and much of the improvement is cosmetic. The evidence for it is in the sudden collapse of Cork and Drogheda last year, which flew in the face of the idea that things are improving.

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Whose fault is it if Drogheda, Bohs, Cork or whoever can't live within their means? Have I missed the point?

Marketing & PR is a separate issue.

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Not any more are they separate. The FAI took over the league with the promise that they could make things better. They set the requirements. They monitor compliance. They set the punishments and incentives. The buck stops with them.

The man makes a reasonable argument as a genuine footballing man. It is not for outsiders to comment on his managerial abilities. I'd rather have more people that are blunt speakers, than those that are afraid to talk about the bleedin' obvious

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Originally Posted by oldyouth

The man makes a reasonable argument as a genuine footballing man. It is not for outsiders to comment on his managerial abilities. I'd rather have more people that are blunt speakers, than those that are afraid to talk about the bleedin' obvious

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The man had no problem managing Dublin City.

The Loudmouth Clown.

the man is a hero. a proper league of ireland man.

ask yourself is he wrong?? no these are facts. these are problems that are in the league and ones we would all like to see out of the league. But the way to solve the problem is not to ignore it, it is to high light it and find out why it has happened and see why the punishments aren't correct.

look at it from the view of an outsider.if you didn't know the league and someone explained to you what has happened ya'd laugh, ya'd think it was a joke. and quite frankly that is what the league is at the moment