The Final Premier Division Spot

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Originally Posted by CelticTiger

And once again,i get slashed at for caring about the well being of irish football! Ridicoulous.

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I don't doubt that you care about the well being of Irish football. The problem for me with your posts is that your argument seems to be "Lets have quality teams playing quality football in quality stadiums in front of lots of fans." Yes, this would be great, but a real solution is to work out how to get from where we are now to that position.

I've already asked you how you think we should go about doing this, but got no answer. You just said better facilities will lead to more fans, which I agree with, but again, where are you going to get the money from?

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Originally Posted by CelticTiger

And once again i say,suggest your own ideas,id really like to see them

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Prominent clubs need to forget about getting any further in Europe than we've been doing, and save enough money so they'll be alive in a few years. In fact, all clubs need to stop reaching for the respective stars, and use a bit of common sense when offering contracts and spending money in other ways.

The FAI needs to squeeze every inch of publicity they can out of wherever they can.

I'm guessing that this year the licencing will be a bit of a joke, and we just have to accept that some clubs probably won't get punished like they should. But the FAI need to make clear that this will be the last time there will be any leniency. From now on, every club needs to have their books examined by the FAI like they're looking for headlice. And the FAI need to have the courage to throw the book at any club that doesn't abide by FAI rules. Clubs have shown themselves unable or unwilling to budget sensibly for the longer term. (Not all clubs obviously, but enough to make such kind of regulation sensible in my opinion)

It's time for this league to take 2 steps back, not so they can take 3 steps forward, but so it can get away from the cliff it is currently teetering on.

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Originally Posted by CelticTiger

1.No,you did not have more than us,you know that.You had about 30 and we had 600-800,dont argue.

2.I know very well about our small fanbase,i never said we had a big fanbase.

3.From what i heard the new ground will hold 6,800 fans....True?

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1. Don't argue :D Great arguement, you should be Cowens right hand man. No but seriously, 30 fans to 800 your drinking too much buddy.

2. Im glad you know it

3. Yes, why do you ask?

Harps would be my preference to stay up.
Or UCD. Even Cobh.

...but not Shels, not this year, not after their fans message to the rest of us in the 1st division when they thought they were promoted.
They deserve another season down here for that.

Harps for me. An extra €30k at least in home gate money, a 35min trip up the road twice and the inevitable 12 points.

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Originally Posted by KevB76

Harps would be my preference to stay up.
Or UCD. Even Cobh.

...but not Shels, not this year, not after their fans message to the rest of us in the 1st division when they thought they were promoted.
They deserve another season down here for that.

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Which would that be? Not that Im concerned, just curious.

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Originally Posted by CelticTiger

Well,the Fai could well be investing far more than they are now.They have to pay 70million Euro for the development of Lansdowne,yet last season they put just 5million into the Loi.

Also,i think we need a new minister for sport,Cullen doenst care about the Loi,we need a new person who actually cares about club football here and not overseas.

So in a nutshell,the Fai need to be more commited to the League and the Government need to spark an interest aswell to really go forward.



It's time for this league to take 2 steps back, not so they can take 3 steps forward, but so it can get away from the cliff it is currently teetering on.

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Yes, i agree,by doing 2 things...

1.Contracts must be shorter,and more realistic.

2. The 65% Wage cap must be seriously enforced.[/QUOTE]

the fai are strapped for cash as they are stuggling to build a stadium in times of recession and they are only making a pittance on matches in croker.
We all know that mistakes have been made at loi clubs but no worse than mistakes at state bodies banking and numerous other places where money has been overspent and has resulted in disasterous repercussions.

thats like saying the banks should not have being giving 100% finance and the developers were paying too much for land but it is easy to be wise after the event.

loi clubs will find their levels and shels this year is in the first division and if the people of larger towns (sorry to pick on fans of limerick waterford and to a lesser extent galway) start to come out and support their local teams then they will have a right to compete at the very highest level.

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Originally Posted by CelticTiger

Well,the Fai could well be investing far more than they are now.They have to pay 70million Euro for the development of Lansdowne,yet last season they put just 5million into the Loi.

Also,i think we need a new minister for sport,Cullen doenst care about the Loi,we need a new person who actually cares about club football here and not overseas.

So in a nutshell,the Fai need to be more commited to the League and the Government need to spark an interest aswell to really go forward.



It's time for this league to take 2 steps back, not so they can take 3 steps forward, but so it can get away from the cliff it is currently teetering on.

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Yes, i agree,by doing 2 things...

1.Contracts must be shorter,and more realistic.

2. The 65% Wage cap must be seriously enforced.[/QUOTE]


Ah now I know, its all totally clear, your Jason Byrne in disguise in a new edition of anonymous, genius.
Not really keen on the show tbh, much better in stand up.

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Originally Posted by KevB76

...but not Shels, not this year, not after their fans message to the rest of us in the 1st division when they thought they were promoted.
They deserve another season down here for that.

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What message was this youre reffering to?

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The likes of Limerick,Galway and Waterford will come out in a more professional setup

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if they cant progress in the current set up , that makes a mockery of your reform of the league.

I hate using this as an example but would you advocate sending leeds united back to the premiership as they are a big club with lots of fans and a great stadium.

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Originally Posted by KevB76

...but not Shels, not this year, not after their fans message to the rest of us in the 1st division when they thought they were promoted.
They deserve another season down here for that.

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What are you talking about? Did you not get enough salt in your chips that night? The pathetic reaction of your fans when you scored is something you should be more concerned about. Maybe when your club is more than two seasons old you can have rivalries with other clubs. It's really quite special, trust me :o

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Originally Posted by sligored

if they cant progress in the current set up , that makes a mockery of your reform of the league.

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Not really, as to progress in the current set up requires more than just a well run and well supported team. My argument runs as follows - feel free to disagree with whichever points you want.

1. Money has been the most important factor in the achievements of the successful clubs in the LOI over the last few years.
2. Bohs, Drogs, Cork, Shels & Pats all padded out their budgets with non-sustainable incomes from directors, land etc..
3. Without a comparable budget, it is impossible for another club to attain the same level of success.
4. Successful clubs attract more fans than when they're unsuccessful.
5. Therefore, the clubs that must rely on regular income streams (advertising, tickets etc..) are hampered in their growth. They need more fans to become more successful, but they can't attract those fans without more money.

What I would like to see happen is the wage cap very rigorously policed. While the bias would still be towards the wealthy teams, it would connect the wealth of a team directly to its fanbase through ticket sales and advertising revenue (more fans means bigger target audience, means more money...). Should this be the case, then it opens the door for the clubs such as Limerick, Galway and Waterford who have no competition for fans and removes the bias towards the Dublin clubs introduced by soaring property prices in the capital (Shels' adventures could not have been financed to the same extent by a similar deal had they held a long term lease on Turners Cross or some other ground outside Dublin).

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Originally Posted by bigmac

Not really, as to progress in the current set up requires more than just a well run and well supported team. My argument runs as follows - feel free to disagree with whichever points you want.

1. Money has been the most important factor in the achievements of the successful clubs in the LOI over the last few years.
2. Bohs, Drogs, Cork, Shels & Pats all padded out their budgets with non-sustainable incomes from directors, land etc..
3. Without a comparable budget, it is impossible for another club to attain the same level of success.
4. Successful clubs attract more fans than when they're unsuccessful.
5. Therefore, the clubs that must rely on regular income streams (advertising, tickets etc..) are hampered in their growth. They need more fans to become more successful, but they can't attract those fans without more money.

What I would like to see happen is the wage cap very rigorously policed. While the bias would still be towards the wealthy teams, it would connect the wealth of a team directly to its fanbase through ticket sales and advertising revenue (more fans means bigger target audience, means more money...). Should this be the case, then it opens the door for the clubs such as Limerick, Galway and Waterford who have no competition for fans and removes the bias towards the Dublin clubs introduced by soaring property prices in the capital (Shels' adventures could not have been financed to the same extent by a similar deal had they held a long term lease on Turners Cross or some other ground outside Dublin).

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Spot on.

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Originally Posted by bigmac

Not really, as to progress in the current set up requires more than just a well run and well supported team. My argument runs as follows - feel free to disagree with whichever points you want.

1. Money has been the most important factor in the achievements of the successful clubs in the LOI over the last few years.
2. Bohs, Drogs, Cork, Shels & Pats all padded out their budgets with non-sustainable incomes from directors, land etc..
3. Without a comparable budget, it is impossible for another club to attain the same level of success.
4. Successful clubs attract more fans than when they're unsuccessful.
5. Therefore, the clubs that must rely on regular income streams (advertising, tickets etc..) are hampered in their growth. They need more fans to become more successful, but they can't attract those fans without more money.

What I would like to see happen is the wage cap very rigorously policed. While the bias would still be towards the wealthy teams, it would connect the wealth of a team directly to its fanbase through ticket sales and advertising revenue (more fans means bigger target audience, means more money...). Should this be the case, then it opens the door for the clubs such as Limerick, Galway and Waterford who have no competition for fans and removes the bias towards the Dublin clubs introduced by soaring property prices in the capital (Shels' adventures could not have been financed to the same extent by a similar deal had they held a long term lease on Turners Cross or some other ground outside Dublin).

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a well run team will adhere to the salary cap- i dont see what the difference is that you dont agree with me bigmac. a well supported team will have a higher income and therefore a higher salary cap as a percentage of income.

i cant figure where your opinion varies from mine.

nobody is disputing that mistakes were made in the past by clubs and the fai.

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Originally Posted by sligored

a well run team will adhere to the salary cap

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But the badly run teams won't adhere to it, will win everything in the short term, stunting the growth of the well run clubs who won't spend as much.

As an example, every club bar us and Shamrock Rovers had some sort of financial problem last year, be it asking players to take wage cuts, not paying bills, massive cut backs for 2009, etc. As a result of all this (and other factors too), we couldn't compete financially, finished last, and now our team will be completely broken up and we've been set back at least a couple of years on the pitch.

If those clubs hadn't overspent, we'd have gotten a couple of extra players, clubs would have been part-time instead of full-time and some players wouldn't have come back to Ireland at all, and so we'd have been much more competitive. Short term, it looks great that we're doing well in Europe, etc, but long term, Bohs, Drogs, Shels, etc have regressed rather than progressed, and the properly progressive clubs have also regressed.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a result of all this (and other factors too), we couldn't compete financially, finished last, and now our team will be completely broken up and we've been set back at least a couple of years on the pitch.

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But Stu, ye are UCD. There are loads of students willing to kick a ball around once they have their homework done like? ;)

Just like there's loads of students willing to go to games, yeah?

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Originally Posted by GalwayRed

What message was this youre reffering to?

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I think he's referring to the point just before John Phelan walked out of the club shop with a banner at the end saying the Phoenix has risen or something along those lines.

or maybe this one...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/...bf643b4033.jpg

Ah, I remember those banners.. :D

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Originally Posted by Joey Killester

Which would that be? Not that Im concerned, just curious.

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Originally Posted by GalwayRed

What message was this youre reffering to?

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Just coming towards the end of the match, when it looked like ye's were going up, the fans in the stand at the far end held up a large banner which read "**** THEM ALL"

No big deal really, just made our equaliser taste all that sweeter. Thought ye were too good for the 1st division, turned out ye werent (well for another year anyways). :)

Not fair deleting my post...didnt mean it in that way...just a general sort of thing!!good enough for the shels fans anyway!!