Are the Ireland team losing support?

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Though more relevant to the thread I think Rugby has overtaken Soccer here, I remember last year a Six Nations game and (I think) the away Czech Republic qualifier were on the same week, same channel and the Six Nations got ~700,000 viewers while the qualifier only managed ~500,000.

Personally I think its down to the state of our local league. In Rugby people are far more connected to Munster and Leinster players and its the pick from these teams that represent the national side. While in soccer its more like a premiership subs bench select 11 at times where everyone has little or no connection with the players.

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I'd say its more to do with the quality of the game.

Over the last 4 years you have had :

* passion; world class players; fantastic technique; and a belief in their own team - Rugby

Vs

* an unwillingness to even play; poor technique, negativity, limited players and even more limited management - Soccer. How many great soccer gaems have I watched us play in recent years!

If your money is hard earned then attending an Irish soccer team game may not be the best investment. Compared for example to Munster heineken cup semi!

McGrath, Houghton, Brady, Sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn etc played in the English top division - did not stop us all (the whole country at times) having a connection.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Though more relevant to the thread I think Rugby has overtaken Soccer here, I remember last year a Six Nations game and (I think) the away Czech Republic qualifier were on the same week, same channel and the Six Nations got ~700,000 viewers while the qualifier only managed ~500,000.

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It's stretching things a bit to conclude that egg-chasing is more popular than football based on the viewing figures for one game. In general Irish football matches produce some of RTE's highest viewing figures (especially for important qualifying games against big name teams). By the time we played in Prague it was pretty obvious that our chances of qualification were slim. I could show you plenty of pubs in Ireland where the Premiership will be on TV on a February Saturday afternoon instead of the Six Nations. Rugby is a much more regional game and will never provide the type of global profile that football has. You can travel all over the world and football fans will recognise the name of Robbie Keane or Shay Given - outside perhaps 8 countries that does not exist for rugby players.

As for the "decline" in attendances it was always clear that Croke Park is far too big a stadium for the FAI. In Lansdowne Road tickets for qualifying games became very hard to get due to the seating restrictions (approx. 35000 capacity). For friendly games, when the capacity was closer to 45,000 it was usually possible to get tickets very easily either from the FAI/Ticketmaster or at face value outside from fans who had spare tickets.

The 1990 and 1994 qualifiers were really our peak when we could sell out 48,000 tickets for qualifying games. That number is probably the natural level of our support and a good reason why the new Lansdowne Road capacity is much more appropriate than 80,000 at Croke Park. Even in the early Jack Charlton days friendlies against teams like Israel were drawing crowds of less than 10,000.

There is no doubt that the GAA is the most-followed sports body in the country but apart from the All-Ireland final and Dublin games, Croke Park is very rarely full for other games. The numbers who are willing to or can afford to pay EUR55 to see a friendly game bears no relation to the relative popularity of football versus rugby or any other sport.

at the last match, cyprus..
tickets were been given away to children, schools etc to fill up the stadium a bit...
plus ppl around me wer shoutin abuse at trapp about not makin subs and how crap d team were playin and its sadly true...

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Though more relevant to the thread I think Rugby has overtaken Soccer here, I remember last year a Six Nations game and (I think) the away Czech Republic qualifier were on the same week, same channel and the Six Nations got ~700,000 viewers while the qualifier only managed ~500,000.

Personally I think its down to the state of our local league. In Rugby people are far more connected to Munster and Leinster players and its the pick from these teams that represent the national side. While in soccer its more like a premiership subs bench select 11 at times where everyone has little or no connection with the players.

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im not sure your factually correct there! I think gspain posted the highest ratings in ireland recently and in something like 8 out of the last 10 years, football has drawn the biggest ratings.

The croke park factor is evident in both football and rugby, we have plenty of people going to the football games that arent really all that bothered if we win lose or draw. Likewise with rugby, it was obvious (and noted in a few of todays papers) that alot of the crowd at croker last night didnt understand why Bowe was sin binned and why a penalty try awarded.

When an Irish football team performs well, it captures the country alot more than when the rugby team is successful. When we played Brazil in a friendly last year, tickets were hard to come by, same scenario with the rugby team last night. For the poland game, the attendance will get near the 55k-60k mark. For a comparative rugby game....say italy in a test (non six nations game) i doubt they would manage a bigger crowd. Thomond wasnt sold out last week for example.

An awful lot of Irish people are event junkies and will go to large supporting events and follow successful teams.

I agree with John Delaney in The Examiner this weekend:

I’ve always said that if Kilkenny play Waterford in a hurling final or Kerry play Tyrone in the All Ireland football final, there’s a big level of interest. When Ireland play in the rugby World Cup, there’s a greater level of interest. But when we qualify for a World Cup or European finals in soccer, the country shuts down. It really does. I don’t think there’s any other sport that captivates this country as much as when we qualify for the finals of a tournament. Everyone wants those moments back.

Rugby is still miles behind football in terms of popularity. From a participation point of view it is in 3rd place well behind gaelic which is the 2nd most popular sport in the country. Rugby is growing in popularity though in many areas where the game was never played. Football is already played everywhere in the country.

From a tv perspective the viewing figures for Cyprus were well ahead of the 6 nations this year. The England rugby game last year was if I recall correctly the most watched sporting event on RTE. However this was the first time since I've seen records that a rugby game has been number 1. An International football match has almost always been in top spot.

Having said that there is clearly far more interest in fans attending big rugby games now than big football matches. However only 16,000 showed up in Limerick for the Canada match last week despite a public sale of tickets. Tickets for the Argentina rugby match on saturday are still on public sale. Yet Munster play New Zealand in Thomond Park on Tuesday with terrace tickets having the same face value as the stand tickets for Canada and the stand being double the price. Not only will the ground be packed but it could have soldout many times over.

If the Italy match next October is to decide WC qualification (we can still dream) then I'd reckon tickets would be every bit as scarce as they were for New Zealand rugby and then some. I think the point here is that many Irish "sports" fans want to just go to the big games and the big events.

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Originally Posted by elroy

im not sure your factually correct there! I think gspain posted the highest ratings in ireland recently and in something like 8 out of the last 10 years, football has drawn the biggest ratings.

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It's actually something like 18 out of the last 20 however rugby was top last year. I think the special Olympics was the other one. I have the stats somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Scram

The empty seats at Croker were very noticeable at the last game and the Poalnd game will probably be 40-50% empty? This would not have happened in previous years.

The good news is that it screws the scumbag touts over, but is this a trend?

Note the contrast with the massive vocal crowd supporting the rugby team today.

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as another poster said - its hard to judge due to croker being so much bigger than lansdowne
an awful lot of bandwagon support out there - as fine a stadium as croker is - i cant wait to go back to lansdowne
have never seen so many rugby jerseys been worn at a soccer game as i have in croker or ppl leaving 15/20 mins b4 half time to get a flippin hot dog and the amount of ppl ive seen leaving the game with 20mins left to go.....

No one's mentioned the price of a ticket,bought 3 for the cusack stand for 2 kids and myself at € 75 each for a friendly against Poland, now today 2 of our best players pull out Keane & McGeady, IMO they may only get 40,000 at this game.

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Originally Posted by elroy

im not sure your factually correct there! I think gspain posted the highest ratings in ireland recently and in something like 8 out of the last 10 years, football has drawn the biggest ratings.

The croke park factor is evident in both football and rugby, we have plenty of people going to the football games that arent really all that bothered if we win lose or draw. Likewise with rugby, it was obvious (and noted in a few of todays papers) that alot of the crowd at croker last night didnt understand why Bowe was sin binned and why a penalty try awarded.

When an Irish football team performs well, it captures the country alot more than when the rugby team is successful. When we played Brazil in a friendly last year, tickets were hard to come by, same scenario with the rugby team last night. For the poland game, the attendance will get near the 55k-60k mark. For a comparative rugby game....say italy in a test (non six nations game) i doubt they would manage a bigger crowd. Thomond wasnt sold out last week for example.

An awful lot of Irish people are event junkies and will go to large supporting events and follow successful teams.

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Italy sold out croke park for the rugby.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Though more relevant to the thread I think Rugby has overtaken Soccer here, I remember last year a Six Nations game and (I think) the away Czech Republic qualifier were on the same week, same channel and the Six Nations got ~700,000 viewers while the qualifier only managed ~500,000.

Personally I think its down to the state of our local league. In Rugby people are far more connected to Munster and Leinster players and its the pick from these teams that represent the national side. While in soccer its more like a premiership subs bench select 11 at times where everyone has little or no connection with the players.

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Personally i think your a muppet,you say it has to do with the state of our national league.Yet you don't go:confused: If more people went it would have more money,sorry forgot then you would miss Corrie on Friday:rolleyes:

And its called football not soccer.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Italy sold out croke park for the rugby.

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Yes but if you look at my post again i did say that compare it to Italy in a non six nations test ie comparable as the poland game is only a friendly. From my reckoning the last time we played Italy in a non 6 nations test it was played in ravenhill........not sure what exactly the capacity of that place is but they wouldnt have got near 50-60k for the match anyways.

Look at the games across europe this week, very few if any will have an attendance in excess of ours.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

Who am I Wumming? If it were a rugby site you could argue I was wumming, but this is a football site.

And I stand by everything I posted. It is no coincidence that the celtic tiger era (and all its values) coincides with the rise in popularity of rugby in this country. And so soccer loses out as a result.

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You might stand by what you posted, but it's blx to be fair.

The 5/6-nation rugger internationals always drew capacity crowds going way back to the 70's and 80's, even when we had no money, and the Irish team were crap. While most of the football internationals drew half the capacity of Lansdowne or less, until Jack Charlton arrived. Remember how many were at the Denmark game in '85?

The reason why the football international crowds are slipping now, is a combination of an average home side, poor opposition, and crazy ticket prices in a recession. In the current climate, €70 standard ticket p.p. to see us play Cyprus and related travel and transport costs, is hard to justify for people who need that money for other things.

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Originally Posted by Blackcastle

No one's mentioned the price of a ticket,bought 3 for the cusack stand for 2 kids and myself at € 75 each for a friendly against Poland, now today 2 of our best players pull out Keane & McGeady, IMO they may only get 40,000 at this game.

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It's €55 and €40 for the cusack stand for wednesday night. The Davin stand is also €40. The cheapest seat for the New Zealand rugby match was €80.

What kind of a crowd is expected for Wednesday's game? The Polish fans should boost the attendance. Its a pity Keane and McGeady are out and Andy Reid is not picked as they are exciting players.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Though more relevant to the thread I think Rugby has overtaken Soccer here, I remember last year a Six Nations game and (I think) the away Czech Republic qualifier were on the same week, same channel and the Six Nations got ~700,000 viewers while the qualifier only managed ~500,000.

Personally I think its down to the state of our local league. In Rugby people are far more connected to Munster and Leinster players and its the pick from these teams that represent the national side. While in soccer its more like a premiership subs bench select 11 at times where everyone has little or no connection with the players.

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Never thought I'd say this but I agree with Ciaran. I'm from Limerick and all I hear is non stop chat about meeting Munster players around town or on a night out. This definitely contributes to the popularity of rugby here. At the same time about 80% of the people from Limerick who claim to be true rugby supporters couldn't give a damn how the Irish rugby team get on which baffles me.

Also, these so called fans would almost definitely completely lose interest in rugby if Munster started losing a couple of games. It's the same in soccer - if we get to a world cup, a few hundred thousand extra supporters come out of the woodwork. I still believe soccer has a much bigger genuine fan base in Ireland than rugby.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The reason why the football international crowds are slipping now, is a combination of an average home side, poor opposition, and crazy ticket prices in a recession. In the current climate, €70 standard ticket p.p. to see us play Cyprus and related travel and transport costs, is hard to justify for people who need that money for other things.

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I would agree with that summarization, though lets be fair its not a drastic fall in numbers. Comparitive to other nations we get a lot more going to games. Attendance at the Poland game will be due to a number of unrelated reasons, not all of them footballing.

It will be the first one i've missed in 7 years, I really need the 40 bills, but its not easy finding buyers as only 2 from 4 have gone.

I personally cant wait for Lansdowne to re-open, the atmosphere in Croker is morgue-like.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

To be fair, when Ireland played Brazil, there wasn't half the fuss as there was for the rugby team playing NZ. Rubgy gets bigger kudos in the media.

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It's not a fair comparison. Because it's only played seriously in a handful of countries, 'friendlies' are are a bigger deal amongst rugby folk. Sometimes they're taken almost as seriously as competitive games, depending on the circumstances.
In football, a friendly against Brazil is still a friendly and is not played at the same pace or with as much enthusiasm as a competitive game, regardless of the opposition.

I agree that that the media has elevated rugby to a status beyond its actual playing numbers or popularity. Of course, the Heineken Cup has enabled the IRFU to make its provincial teams powerhouses, thereby generating the kind of 'event' support that Irish people are world-beaters at. And fair play to them.
And, as someone said before, there is a noticeable unholy alliance between the GAA man and the rugby man these days, with Irish football more often than not the subject of ridicule in the media and in, em, 'white collar' workplaces.
Sticking to the international team here, as to include domestic troubles would be too much for one post, I think that all we need is to string a few good results together and you'll see football restored to its rightful place, because the people really want Ireland to do well, whereas they don't actually care too much about rugby. That's just a sideshow and a bandwagon that can be fun to hop on. Rugby will never cause the devastation to anyone that I and thousands of others felt, for example, after the penalty shoot-out loss to Spain or the injury time goal for Macedonia.
Football means more to more people.

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Originally Posted by mypost

You might stand by what you posted, but it's blx to be fair.

The 5/6-nation rugger internationals always drew capacity crowds going way back to the 70's and 80's, even when we had no money, and the Irish team were crap. While most of the football internationals drew half the capacity of Lansdowne or less, until Jack Charlton arrived. Remember how many were at the Denmark game in '85?

The reason why the football international crowds are slipping now, is a combination of an average home side, poor opposition, and crazy ticket prices in a recession. In the current climate, €70 standard ticket p.p. to see us play Cyprus and related travel and transport costs, is hard to justify for people who need that money for other things.

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I can remember going into the Harp bar on D'olier street after coming back from the 79 away game to France. About 50 fans decked in colours being asked where we had been by most of the customers. Having to beg the barman in Blades of Terenure to turn on the France v Holland game (a 0-0 draw would have put us in a play-off) in 81. In many ways 40,000 plus for a friendly against Poland is excellent.

I would say that one major factor in the down turn in our crowd levels is the fact the vast majority of our support follow either one of the big 4 EPL teams or Celtic & would have very little connection with the national team other than 1/2 of their club players will be on show for the national team. because of this they would rather save their money to go watch these teams at the weekend or for a big european night.

I think it was Jamie Carragher who said in his book that it is the fans of the smaller teams in England(i.e. championship teams) who are the core of the English fan base whereas the fans of Liverpool/Man Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea only really care about their national team when it comes to World Cup/Euro finals.