The "Ultra" Culture

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Originally Posted by Inside Man

Ultras bring noise colour etc to league of Ireland. Without them the league would be a much duller place I tell you. Who wants to go to a quiet showgrounds on a saterday night to watch poor football. Its the atmosphere thats part of the biggest experience's in League of Ireland.

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Ultra's don't do that, the fans do. There was noise and flags etc. in the Showgrounds before Forza Rovers were set up. It's just a group of people that like to create a better atmosphere, not ultras.

And as for the 'to watch poor football' comment, maybe you're going to the wrong Showgrounds?

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Originally Posted by Rovers1

excuse me??? US!!!???
havent seen you sing at a game in yonks, except Derry ;)

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Because you're usually too drunk to notice;)

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Originally Posted by Rovers1

it belongs somewhere near Italy imo

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Just near Italy? So, San Marino or the Vatican city is it?:p

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Originally Posted by Sandro

“We are ultras (or ultrà). We are not people like the others. We don’t follow the crowd, we refuse to conform. We are ready to fight wrong truth, oppression and contemptuous sights. We will never betray what we believe in and we will keep following our line for ever . Without anybody’s help, without anyone saying “good, well done”. Alway like this, wearing our scarf around Italy, following our dream. We are not heroes but we love what we are and we want to defend it. And you, even if you don’t care about us, listen to our words: if you feel they push you around, if you think you can play you part in making this world pure, then follow us. Do the same, be ultras, no matter if you are (politically) black, red or purple. We can’tell your life will be better, no we can’t. But we know it will be real life”

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What a load of w@nk

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Originally Posted by Sandro

“We are ultras (or ultrà). We are not people like the others. We don’t follow the crowd, we refuse to conform. We are ready to fight wrong truth, oppression and contemptuous sights. We will never betray what we believe in and we will keep following our line for ever . Without anybody’s help, without anyone saying “good, well done”. Alway like this, wearing our scarf around Italy, following our dream. We are not heroes but we love what we are and we want to defend it. And you, even if you don’t care about us, listen to our words: if you feel they push you around, if you think you can play you part in making this world pure, then follow us. Do the same, be ultras, no matter if you are (politically) black, red or purple. We can’tell your life will be better, no we can’t. But we know it will be real life”

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i dont think i have ever read a bigger pile of Sh*te than the above

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Was that aimed at me? I know what an Ultra is. I was asking why an Italian Ultra would laugh at someone from here in an Ultra organisation? Numbers? Politics? Hooliganism? Dedication? Type of display? Influence with their club?

If youd like to stop being so cryptic maybe we could discuss it.

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I think most people on here have differentiated between Ultras and fans who wave flags. Sandro's post explains why Italian Ultras would laugh at an Irish "Ultra". None of that applies to eL fans that I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

You think Ultras here just 'wave flags'?

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No, that's actually the exact opposite of what I think and said.

Let's have a look at the definition of Ultras on wikipedia (I know, I know; feel free to suggest a better starting point). The overview paragraph says -

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Ultras [...] are a sanctioned form of sports team supporters renowned for their violent conduct. They are predominantly European and South American followers of football teams. The behavioral tendency of ultras groups includes the use of flares—primarily in tifo choreography—, vocal support in large groups, defiance against police officers and the display of intimidating banners at football stadiums. Consistently rivals with opposing supporters, ultras groups are often identified with their respective team. The actions of ultra fan groups are influenced by racial violence, cross-town derbys between clubs from the same city, and even from poor performances by the teams.

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To me anyway, that's a decent definition. Compare the definition points to what we have in Ireland -

1) Renowned for violent conduct - not really.
2) Flares - occasionally; less now that we get fined for it. Anything like on the continent? No. Nothing close.
3) Vocal display in large groups - "large" is a subjective term, but we'll grant this one.
4) Defiance against police officers - not really.
5) Intimidating banners - occasionally, but rare.

So we kind of get a small bit of the way there, but nothing like what you'd see on the continent. Certainly,having been to games in the Czech Republic, Spain and Norway, Ireland pales in comparison. Not that there's anything particularly wrong with that, or people wanting to create a bit of atmosphere in the league. But I think it's fair to say that there's nothing in Ireland which really justifies the term "Ultra", and if an Italian Ultra went to a game and saw one bed-sheet with "Jea£ou$?" crudely painted on it, singing giving way to a low hum of moaning half way through a match (maybe cos it's only UCD, maybe cos the game's gone quiet), maybe one or two flares, they would probably think it was all very quaintly Irish in a leprechauny kind of way.

Absolutely fair play to those who do make an effort, and I'm aware that for the big games (a typically Irish way of doing things), we can get a lot closer to the points above, but in general, I don't think any group in Ireland can come close to calling itself Ultras in the proper sense.

Some of our Ultra's have been banned from the Brandywell for the rest of the season and next I think. Banned for the use of flares in the video posted in the first post after numerous warnings. Also costing the club alot in fines.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Some of our Ultra's have been banned from the Brandywell for the rest of the season and next I think. Banned for the use of flares in the video posted in the first post after numerous warnings. Also costing the club alot in fines.

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It looks like the "Derry Ultra's" were either having a show of strength or an act of decommisioning some of their flares and strobe's during the Cork Setanta game on tuesday night in the cemetry over looking the Brandywell.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ioXp0AaagoU

"Ultras...." me arse!
Really? A bunch of ****ed-up pencil-necked teenagers throwing shapes and insults at away fans 50m away before running away from the cops doesn't an Ultra make.
let's face it! it's not a part of our game, our "Ultras" are much more like American football fans than European Ultras.... they're scruffy, drunk, colourful, blow hards and buffoons.
Ultras in the LOI... don't make me laugh!
and if anyone posts fight or missile throwing footage... they're still not Ultras, they're scumbags!

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Dunno how anyone could object to the athmosphere these guys bring to the grounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNifSp-2vaI

To say that this kind of stuff used to just happen spontaneously is a joke

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Great video!

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Dunno how anyone could object to the athmosphere these guys bring to the grounds:

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I don't think anyone's objected to the atmosphere brought to the grounds. But most of them appear to be just waving flags and bringing colour (nothing wrong with that mind) which goes against your earlier comment of "You think Ultras here just 'wave flags'?"

And your complaint of playing against "the likes of UCD every other week" appears to be completely against the Ultra culture you quoted. You can't just choose your games.

Yet another embarrassing thread on the "Ultra/Flares/Singing/Flags" etc topic.

Some people are happy enough to sit on their rear and yell every once in a while, and it is rare that you see threads started about their behaviour -Yet these people get a bee in their collective bonnets whenever an "Ultra" element puts their nose out of joint for some reason.

Live and let live. Get some fresh air. We are all dying one day at a time. Try and f***ing enjoy it while you can for Christ sake.

Done.

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

The four core points of the ultra mentality are:

• never stop singing or chanting during a match, no matter what the result
• never sit down during a match
• attend as many games as possible (home and away), regardless of cost or distance
• loyalty to the stand in which the group is located (also known as the Curva or Kop).

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Bullcrap!

I do that at most matches and i'm no ultra.

• I go singing with the crowd at every home game.
• I refuse to sit down at matches. Purely because I like to stand at football matches. To prove that point I was shown in the crowd at the Pats vs Ramblers match on MNS last Monday night......standing up!
• Been to 25 games this year out of 31.
• The Northbank!

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Originally Posted by Rambling Along

Bullcrap!

I do that at most matches and i'm no ultra.

• I go singing with the crowd at every home game.
• I refuse to sit down at matches. Purely because I like to stand at football matches. To prove that point I was shown in the crowd at the Pats vs Ramblers match on MNS last Monday night......standing up!
• Been to 25 games this year out of 31.
• The Northbank!

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Why does it matter if one person wants to call themselves an ultra for doing the above? Who really cares?

Leave them off once they stick to colour and noise and ignore the hooligan crap then what harm.

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

You ignored my entire post here. :confused:

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You've lots of posts now!:)

If it's that this sort of stuff doesn't happen spontaneously, I agree. But that doesn't make people Ultras.

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Point taken about the UCD though. Its alright for you, you dont have to play against UCD

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That's alright. Deep down, I know you're just like the big-game majority of Dublin GAA fans who don't know where Parnell Park is. ;)

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Point taken about the UCD though. Its alright for you, you dont have to play against UCD ;)

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No, but apparently we have to play Rovers every other week. :eek:

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Originally Posted by D24Hoop

Ultras groups here ... have to play against the likes of UCD every other week.

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That or we're not unique in our low crowds and ... (what exactly else gets us all this abuse?) and all this singling out of UCD is some sort of moronic crusade.

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Originally Posted by jebus

Because groups like the Rovers Ultras are a joke to be fair. I didn't see much from ye when Rovers were in the 1st division

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dkJecd2zTw

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sligoman

Because you're usually too drunk to notice;)

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well someone has to be in fairness :rolleyes:

you have your security to worry about at home games anyway :p

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

The Oirish will find out what am Ultra is when this happenes,they can come back and tell us:)

Italian will ask who do you support??

Oirish replay Man United,Italians laugh.
Italian no who do you really follow??

Oirish reply,United,seeing them on Sky Sports a whole bunch of times.

Italians stop laughing and beat up the Oirish.

This may even happen:o

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The country where everyone supports Juventus?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

The country where everyone supports Juventus?

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Yea those crazy Italians and their Italian team supporting ways

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Really? A bunch of ****ed-up pencil-necked teenagers throwing shapes and insults at away fans 50m away before running away from the cops doesn't an Ultra make.

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Why do you label these 'pencil-necked teenagers' as ultras?
i can nearly guarantee you that these lads 'throwing shapes' are little wannabe casuals who have a toss every time they watch green street.

They certainly wont label themselves as ultras.

If a young hard lad is looking for a 'ruck' with opposition fans he wont ask 'do X have ultras' he'll ask 'do X have a firm'.simple as.