The Centre Midfield Crisis.

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16/10/2008, 5:00 AM
Fergie's Son

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Say what you will, but a team including Kilbane, McShane, Whelan, and Gibson would get absolutely hammered by a full strength Italian side, home or away.

Cyprus pushed Italy and should have beaten them. Not drawn with them but beaten them and beaten them well. This is a decent Cyprus team and we did well for the win.

At home, Italy just about beat Montenegro.
16/10/2008, 6:12 AM
SilkCut

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Cyprus pushed Italy and should have beaten them. Not drawn with them but beaten them and beaten them well. This is a decent Cyprus team and we did well for the win.

At home, Italy just about beat Montenegro.

Exactly. The Cyprus of 4/5 years ago cannot be compared to this Cypriot team. I think the majority of us forget how much they have improved (I know I had until recently) Cyprus appear to be doing what Turkey did before them, they even have a team in the CL who are giving a very good account of themselves.
16/10/2008, 6:14 AM
SilkCut

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

I'm just as happy as you are about the result.

And I agree with you that every team (especially from a nation of our size) relies on a certain amount of workmanlike players.

My point is that you can only have so many of those players before you cannot maintain a top performance.

We can survive with Whelan in midfield alongside Reid, and Kilbane as a makeshift left-full, because we don't have much in the way of better alternatives.

But when a rookie comes in for S. Reid, and we lose one of Europe's premier right backs and have a centre-half come in to play in his place, we're just asking too much of everybody.

I agree with you that when we're fully healthy we can have quite a solid team out there, I'm just saying that we're lucky that we were playing the likes of Cyprus tonight and not Italy.

Thats a fair point, but Cyprus are not a bad side.
16/10/2008, 7:36 AM
antrimgreen

Serious opionion of game last night, we had a keeper and 8 out field players, 4 defenders 2 wingers and 2 strikers thought they all had pretty good games, but our 2 centre midfielders are embrassingly sh*te, no way international level in fact i was think Amateur league they would not stand out. Defending they were not that bad once the ball went in and around the box but this pressure could have easily stopped if our centre mids were half decent. They failed time and time again to get the ball find a pass and move, more like kick it to the RB or a corner effort to McGeady, poor poor poor midfield. Caught in possession is a crime in the middle which happened, positioning was poor. I think Whelan is a fraction better than gibson but boy do we need a new midfield. Cringe city they looked like fish out of water. :mad:
16/10/2008, 8:15 AM
Lenny82

I left the ground last night thinking we were lucky to get the win given that they should have scored that effort with 5 minutes to go but when I got home and watched it again I realised how many chances we created. The Cyprus keeper pulled off a great save from Doyle but it was hit at the perfect height for him and McGeady should have scored his chance also. At times, some of the lads looked afraid to shoot.

Overall I don't think we played too badly and Gibson does not deserve the criticism he is getting. I think he gave the ball away twice in the game and although he didn't stand out as being a great centre mid, he didn't look out of place and will only get better. Whelan played another fine game considering he was without his chaporone Steven Reid.

I thought Keane worked his socks off but threw himself to ground far too often and was far from impressive. McShane had a stinking 60 minutes but started to calm down in the last half hour. He still looked dodgy and I don't think he will start for us again.

We've got another 3 points with 2 home games approaching. If we beat Georgia and beat Bulgaria the same day Italy travel to tricky Montenegro, we could find ourselves top of the group at the half way stage!!!
16/10/2008, 9:51 AM
galwayhoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Say what you will, but a team including Kilbane, McShane, Whelan, and Gibson would get absolutely hammered by a full strength Italian side, home or away.

maybe so, but of course McShane and Gibson wouldn't be anywhere near our starting 11 if we were at full strength also.

apples and pears my man, apples and pears
16/10/2008, 2:05 PM
skill school

simple as this . a straight swap . the two reids for gibson and wheelan . if trap cant see that then were back to square one .
16/10/2008, 2:23 PM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Say what you will, but a team including Kilbane, McShane, Whelan, and Gibson would get absolutely hammered by a full strength Italian side, home or away.

:rolleyes: Like they hammered Cyprus and Montenegro? Get real......
16/10/2008, 2:23 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by skill school

simple as this . a straight swap . the two reids for gibson and wheelan . if trap cant see that then were back to square one .

that's not even close to being a straight swap.
16/10/2008, 2:31 PM
skill school

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

that's not even close to being a straight swap.

last time i checked you can only pay 11 . stephen reid to break up the play and cover and andy to do what he does best . pass the ball . the two that played last night cant do either .
16/10/2008, 2:56 PM
Ordinary Fan

There are no experienced midfielders to step in for injuries. There are a number of promising younger players but they don,t even make the squar, McCann, Garvan, O'Toole, even McCarthy
But the old guys like Holland, Kavanagh and even Carsley are not up to scratch. Steven Reid is class but unfortunatley injury prone, so we neeed an alternative. If trapp beleves that Gibson is that alternative then he must play against Poland, but his only chance with United is in the Carling cuo and that is not guranteed.
I know McCann throught the rattler out of the pram with Givens, but I think this is the player Trap should be grooming as he covers the field, is stong, can tackle, pass and shoot.
16/10/2008, 3:28 PM
Torn-Ado

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

While the boys did the job today, you've got to say they did the bare minimum. They were essentially stoppers, as Trap wanted, but our campaign will rely on Stephen Reid being healthy in our biggest matches.

We survived (barely) against a team like Cyprus, but imagine sending the team we sent out today against the likes of Italy.

Stuff of nightmares.

Agree about reid. How we missed him last night. The performances of our two central midfielders last night reeked of reserve football.
16/10/2008, 5:51 PM
Brendan 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

While the boys did the job today, you've got to say they did the bare minimum. They were essentially stoppers, as Trap wanted, but our campaign will rely on Stephen Reid being healthy in our biggest matches.

We survived (barely) against a team like Cyprus, but imagine sending the team we sent out today against the likes of Italy.

Stuff of nightmares.

I've got news for you mate. The "likes of Cyprus" are actually the third best team in this group. They lost to an injury time winner against Italy. People need to wise up on stuff like this. It is not 1990, where only the traditional European powerhouses walk over the smaller nations.
16/10/2008, 6:22 PM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan 82

I've got news for you mate. The "likes of Cyprus" are actually the third best team in this group. They lost to an injury time winner against Italy. People need to wise up on stuff like this. It is not 1990, where only the traditional European powerhouses walk over the smaller nations.

I'd say they are the 4th or 5th best team in the group.

Wouldn't rate them ahead of Italy, Bulgaria, or us, and I'd say they are on par with Montenegro.

They are well organized, with a couple of decent attacking threats.

No more, no less.
16/10/2008, 6:59 PM
Fergie's Son

This Cyprus team has been playing together for years. They are a solid squad. Also, Andy Reid isn't the answer. He is not the silver bullet solution to your midfield woes. He can't tackle, doesn't keep the ball particularly well and has no pace. He's fine in a 5 man midfield but not in a pure 4-4-2 particularly against a side like Cyprus who have a physical midfield.

He can't currently get a start for Sunderland, didn't make it at Spurs and is not the answer to our midfield issue. Maybe as a replacement for one of our strikers but otherwise he isn't in the plans and really shouldn't be in a game where we face a physical midfield.
16/10/2008, 7:02 PM
Razors left peg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

This Cyprus team has been playing together for years. They are a solid squad. Also, Andy Reid isn't the answer. He is not the silver bullet solution to your midfield woes. He can't tackle, doesn't keep the ball particularly well and has no pace. He's fine in a 5 man midfield but not in a pure 4-4-2 particularly against a side like Cyprus who have a physical midfield.

He can't currently get a start for Sunderland, didn't make it at Spurs and is not the answer to our midfield issue. Maybe as a replacement for one of our strikers but otherwise he isn't in the plans and really shouldn't be in a game where we face a physical midfield.

Think you are in the minority with Irish fans with that opinion... but most importantly that seems to be Traps opinion of Reidy too.... Personally I think you are wrong
16/10/2008, 7:07 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

This Cyprus team has been playing together for years. They are a solid squad. Also, Andy Reid isn't the answer. He is not the silver bullet solution to your midfield woes. He can't tackle, doesn't keep the ball particularly well and has no pace.

If you think that then no wonder you're playing him down in this thread. He's excellent at keeping possession imo.
16/10/2008, 7:09 PM
Fergie's Son

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Think you are in the minority with Irish fans with that opinion... but most importantly that seems to be Traps opinion of Reidy too.... Personally I think you are wrong

Me, Trapp, Martin Jol and evidently Roy Keane.

He's a class player, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he fits in with our current structure. Put another way, he's a luxury that we can't afford.

I really haven't seen him keep possesion that well and indeed that was one of the reasons Keane dropped him.
16/10/2008, 7:16 PM
eirebhoy

Trap didn't play Pirlo though, enough said.
16/10/2008, 7:18 PM
jmurphyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Me, Trapp, Martin Jol and evidently Roy Keane.

He's a class player, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he fits in with our current structure. Put another way, he's a luxury that we can't afford.

I really haven't seen him keep possesion that well and indeed that was one of the reasons Keane dropped him.

He can't fit into Trap's plans at the moment which is something that I'm upset about. He's one of my favourite if not my favourite Irish player. I think Trap could work out a way to use him, but I'll stand by Trap anyhow. But to say that Keane and Jol don't rate him is not true. Jol (possibly) bought him and I recall him saying plenty of good things about Reid at the time. Also, I think Reid has matured a lot since leaving Tottenham and he's a far superior player. Charlton went completely downhill when he left. As for Keane, whilst I

I'm not currently aware of how much he's been playing this season, Keane bought him and he was playing at the start of the season. I very much doubt that Keane doesn't rate him. He had plenty of time to see Andy Reid in training with the Ireland squad so I very much doubt that Reid is a player that he feels he made a mistake in purchasing.

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