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exactly. they lost their next match so harry blames the trip and takes it out on keane. if they had won i doubt it would have had much of a mention at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
keanes form dipped greatly after we "lost" to france. he has not since re-discovered it and thats the reason that harry wants to pass him on.
The greedy ****** has asked for an extra million if West Ham stay up. The 65k a week isn't enough for him......Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Fancies himself as a bit of a saviour then. He'll need to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Yeah. But he's at the end of his career. He needs to bring in the green whilst he can. If his goals keep WH up then its a million well spent.
West Ham already have too many first team strikers (Cole, Obinna, Piquionne, McCarthy, Hines, Nouble, and Sears (who is **** but will still probably get a look))...I'd take Keane over any of them besides maybe Cole, who he can play alongside like he did Quinn, but Obinna, Hines, and Piquionne give them a different option so he may still not be playing as much as he'd like. The three I just mentioned can all play on the wing (more Obinna and Hines than Piquionne) as can Nouble, but then again so do Stanislas, Boa Morte, Barrera, Dyer, Faubert (more of a fullback), and young Anthony Edgar. In short, they have no dearth of attacking options (who haven't been scoring enough, but then again neither has Robbie, albeit in limited time), and while on his day Robbie is a better option than most of them, he hasn't been in the form that he would need to be to lock down a starting place there (again though, in limited time), which is what is needed from an Irish perspective.
I wish him all the best though if he does join...with Parker and Noble providing him with service (especially those little balls over the top he loves to latch on to) and if he can feed off Carlton Cole's ability to be a target man (though he's another guy who needs to find his form), he could be a hit there.
My understanding of the additional 1M to move to West Ham was that it was a request from Spurs, not Keane?
Watched him on the Late Late last night and frankly he came across as a class act. A true football fan. He was uneqivocal in his desire that his son be considered Irish and looks forward to his playing for us (even going so far as to have his wife fly back to Dublin to have the baby!). Just came across as a decent lad. Hope a good move materializes. Birmingham might be a good option vis a vis playing time.
I thought as much that you were using Wikipedia as a source/support for your guesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Tardelli's comment in 2008 about Keane were similar to his comments about Keane in 2000 when at Inter.
Inter and Keane
New Inter coach Marco Tardelli has used Keane sparingly since taking over from the sacked Marcelo Lippi, but admitted he was a Keane fan when he took over the job.
"Of course I know about Robbie Keane," he said. "If he wasn't here, I'd try to sign him."
The reason for his sale from Inter was most probably as was stated - financial, there were plenty of offers to sign Keane from Inter. He was the new kid - behind the other top strikers at Inter. Tardelli was told he had to shed some of the financial burden and most probably that became a priority after the early Champions League exit in 2000.
The facts:
- Keane is one of the all time top scorers in the premiership.
- Keane is 30, not 34.
- He has played for Inter Milan, Liverpool, Tottenham and Celtic. He has no shortage of experience playing with winning teams.
- He is the captain of his country and carries a huge marketing weight as a result.
I do think Robbie Keane should be seen as quite marketable and should be attractive to a lot of clubs, I certainly don't want to see him being a desperation signing from a relegation threatened club when hes much better than that.
What he needs isn't so much game time as it is confidence, he needs to be at a club where he's regarded as a cut above their other striking options, a club that won't sub him after 30 minutes, a club that he isn't under the threat of being dropped after 1 bad game.
The main thing Keane needs to thrive is to be an important player in a team and the place security that comes from that. He has it at Ireland, he had it at Celtic and he had it for many years at Tottenham. His attitude is questionable and when his playing time is cut like it was at Liverpool or at his second spell at Tottenham Keane diminishes into a very poor player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
What exactly has he won with these teams?? The only winning experience he has is the league cup in 07/08.
He may also still be captain of his country, but his marketablilty relies solely on scoring goals, something he has not done consistently in the Premier League in quite a while now.
Very possible (and for Daniel Levy, very typical!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
When Man City loaned Joe Hart to Birmingham, they charged a £1m loan fee, with Brum to pay his wages (as well as giving a - rumoured - undertaking to select him).
And how did you figure that one out, Sherlock? From where I posted:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
"And if it is any guide (OK, it's probably not!), Keane's wiki entry states..."
Neither you nor I knows what really went on at Inter between Tardelli and Keane. You seem to be relying on newspaper quotations, which in my experience cannot be entirely relied upon (to say the least).Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Therefore I prefer to form my opinions by reviewing the facts, which are that soon after Tardelli took over, Keane left on loan, then was subsequently transferred permanently.
Of course in Italy, a "manager" (coach actually) will often see players transferred over his head, even without any consultation, if eg the Club Owner thinks it a good deal financially. However, loaning a player is different, since it does not actually bring in any significant revenue and in Keane's case will not have freed up a large wage bill.
Therefore it may be that Tardelli actually instigated the loan, in order to free up a place in his new squad.
Or maybe not.
In which case all we can say is that Tardelli doesn't appear to have gone out on a limb to keep Keane at Inter.
Nor, as Trap's assistant, can we place too much reliance on what he says to the Irish Press about the player, since even if he doesn't rate Keane, he (and Trap) have few realistic alternatives and cannot buy a replacement (obviously) for someone who is a bit of a hero with the fans since long before their arrival.
I also read that the £1m "bonus" demand was from the club, not the player. I'd have posted it except Fergie's Son had already done so.
(Sadly) I tend to agree with you over Murfinator, Weldoninho.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
If you look at Keane's record over the last two and a half seasons, it's rather poor (at least by the standards of a top player).
2010/11 Spurs: He has started two EPL games (subbed both times) and been a late sub for another four games. No goals.
2009/10 Spurs: Played 3 full EPL games, started another 12 but was subbed and came on as late sub another 5 times. Six goals.
2009/10 Celtic: Played 16 SPL games. Twelve goals.
2008/09 Spurs: Played 13 full EPL games, being subbed late in a 14th. Five goals.
2008/09 Liverpool: Played 4 full EPL games, was subbed in another 12 and came on as sub in three more. Five goals.
Fair enough, he may have played other games (eg Cup, European, ROI etc) and he may certainly have been messed around by Managers and Chairmen etc.
But in the end, 20 full EPL* games in two and a half seasons for a 30 year old who hasn't been badly injured, is not the sort of record to attract a leading club to splash out a big fee on a player for a permanent transfer.
Imo, his best bet would be to accept a move, if only on loan, to any EPL club he can get who will pick him regularly (Wolves? WHU? Brum? Everton? Villa?), and hope to make enough of an impression to restore his (fading) reputation.
* - I don't rate the SPL as being any sort of recommendation these days, tbh.
Are you still rattling on, confusing facts with opinions based on poor quality surmising.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Yes I do put some value on direct uncontradicted quotes as an accurate enough source and an accurate enough indicator of Tardelli's opinion in 2000. I value them way higher than obvious cynical slanted journalism in that London paper, or lazy entries in Wikipedia, or your surmises.
No, I do not know what really happened at Inter. All the known facts, support what Tardelli says happened. Tardelli quoted in 2008, when newly arrived assistant Irish manager, is entirely consistent with his quotes from 2000.
And this is piece of your mind, quoted from your earlier musings, is prittle prattle.
Quote:
My guess is that for whatever reason, Tardelli didn't rate Keane at Inter, so agitated to move him on. But now when he finds the player is his star striker for ROI, he has to finesse that earlier episode, hence the "straight bat".
"Uncontradicted quotes" is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You may be prepared to believe what you read in the papers without question (or at least when it suits your view), but I am not. Which is why I feel that that quotation of Tardelli's may actually be contradicted by the facts.
That is, Inter signed RK for a big fee when Lippi was their coach. Lippi gave him reasonable game time. Then Lippi was sacked and replaced by Tardelli. Next RK found himself farmed out on loan, before being transferred permanently. Throughout this process, neither the player changed, nor did the Owner, just the coach, Tardelli.
Of course there may be a plausible alternative explanation, but those bare facts suggest Tardelli may not have rated RK. Which if correct, is hardly likely to be contradicted by Tardelli when he "inherited" RK some years later, since he was by now in no position to loan/transfer him from the ROI squad as had happened with Inter. Hence the journalist's "straight bat" comment.
Why would a senior journalist writing for the main London paper, about a prominent and popular player at a leading London club, be "cynical" or slanted" against the player? I have read quite a bit of Olley's stuff and as a fan both of Spurs and Keane, I think I would have detected any bias against either club or player before now.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Meanwhile I doubt whether you had even heard of Olley before I posted his article.
Could it simply be that Tardelli wanted results asap and had no time to invest in a young player? Given the promise of Keane's early career and his reasonably good start at Inter it'd have been odd for anyone "not to rate him". Sometimes a good player just doesn't fit a manager's plans. Sometimes supporters are hungry for big names, especially when they've had little success. There could be any one of a number of reasons other than simply Tardelli made a quick judgment and didn't rate him. Maybe he didn't, but Keane's had a pretty successful, albeit far from stellar, career since then. Given Serie A's relative decline versus the EPL over the last decade, it'd be hard to think that a good EPL player wouldn't also have been a good Serie A player.
Irish Times reporting that Pardew might be interestedin Keane at Newcastle.
I'd love to see him playing off Andy Carroll but being a fairly loathesome club right now...I hope not.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
You miss the point by a country mile. We are talking about Tardelli. The only thing that has some value are Tardelli quotes and context.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I don't chose to believe anything but I put a much higher value on a direct quote in context which has not been contradicted.
Get it?
Keane was still a kid then, and no one expected him to claim a first team place in a few months considering who was ahead of him. He was signed for proven promise.Quote:
That is, Inter signed RK for a big fee when Lippi was their coach. Lippi gave him reasonable game time. Then Lippi was sacked and replaced by Tardelli.
Nothing he did at Inter lessened that proven promise. He left Inter, unblemished.
That does not mean Keane flopped at Inter or that Tardelli did not rate him as high as he said he did in 2000.Quote:
Next RK found himself farmed out on loan, before being transferred permanently. Throughout this process, neither the player changed, nor did the Owner, just the coach, Tardelli. Of course there may be a plausible alternative explanation, but those bare facts suggest Tardelli may not have rated RK.
Tardelli had made "straight bat" comments about Robbie Keane in 2000. Something you chose not to put any value on. Tardelli's straight bat statements in 2008 are very similar to his "straight bat" comments in 2000.Quote:
Which if correct, is hardly likely to be contradicted by Tardelli when he "inherited" RK some years later, since he was by now in no position to loan/transfer him from the ROI squad as had happened with Inter. Hence the journalist's "straight bat" comment.
I never heard of Olley before, what does that matter?Quote:
Why would a senior journalist writing for the main London paper, about a prominent and popular player at a leading London club, be "cynical" or slanted" against the player? I have read quite a bit of Olley's stuff and as a fan both of Spurs and Keane, I think I would have detected any bias against either club or player before now.
Meanwhile I doubt whether you had even heard of Olley before I posted his article.
I don't know why that journalist chose to write a cynical article based on his poor knowledge of Keane's early career. Maybe there are people, who work in the media, whose mindset is similar to yourself - who have a tendency to waffle on endlessly, expressing the baseless notions that float through their head at any given time and persist with them, even when faced with a more rational and supported explanation. Whether you/Olley was/is a fan of Keane is irrelevant.
You really don't know the value of substance, do you? nor have you been blessed with a minimum degree of objective rationality.
According to this website, Robbie is out with a hamstring injury and is not expected to be available to play until January 16th.
http://www.physioroom.com/news/engli...0b480e6179b5f6