Eligibility Rules, Okay

FIFA upholds the original decision: https://www.fifa.com/legal/media-rel...er-byron-david

Quote:

---

...the player was to be considered as holding permanent Ecuadorian nationality in accordance with art. 5 par. 1 of the FIFA Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes.

---

I'm assuming they meant Article 15, part one of which reads:

Quote:

---

Any person holding the nationality of a country is eligible to play forthe representative teams of the Association of his country. TheExecutive Committee shall decide on the conditions of eligibilityfor any Player who assumes a new nationality and for whom par. 3of this article does not apply, or for any Player who would, in principle, be eligible to play for the teams of more than one Associationdue to his nationality

---

I suppose the point here is that Castillo is, by Ecuadorian law, considered to have been an Ecuadorian citizen since birth, regardless of what has been said in any recording.

Chile are now going to CAS. Ecuador is due to open the World Cup in 65 days.

There's been a change in the eligibility rules for British clubs signing foreign players, outlined on the42 here
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-brexit-...93594-Jun2023/

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/spo...585952490.html

Michael O'Neill speaks publicly about Ronan Hale switching his allegiance from Ireland to NI.

Call him up, John O’Shea…

Off topic posts deleted.
The long-held policy of the forum is to refer to the national side as Ireland, unless clarification is needed, in which case "Republic of Ireland" is used.

A flurry of activity in the Eligibility Rules, Okay thread and I missed it. :(

Michael O'Neill openly talking about poaching players from his neighbouring association. Anyone have the number for CAS?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Predator

A flurry of activity in the Eligibility Rules, Okay thread and I missed it. :(

Michael O'Neill openly talking about poaching players from his neighbouring association. Anyone have the number for CAS?

---

It really is a shame you missed it, for you mightn't be so far from the mark in your comments.

Namely, after he was asked about Ronan Hale by some local journalist looking for an angle, he replied:
"I wouldn’t pick a player unless he had committed to do an international transfer. The fact is we could pick him and play him, but it wouldn’t really count for anything. I don’t think that would send the right message to the rest of the squad."

Damned funny way of "poaching", eh?

P.S. He hasn't even spoken to the player - it's up to the player to speak to him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

It really is a shame you missed it, for you mightn't be so far from the mark in your comments.

Namely, after he was asked about Ronan Hale by some local journalist looking for an angle, he replied:
"I wouldn’t pick a player unless he had committed to do an international transfer. The fact is we could pick him and play him, but it wouldn’t really count for anything. I don’t think that would send the right message to the rest of the squad."

Damned funny way of "poaching", eh?

P.S. He hasn't even spoken to the player - it's up to the player to speak to him.

---

You are quite correct. Of course, the entire concept of "poaching" in this context has always been absurd, since it has always been "up to the player" to make a decision. A player cannot be fished away from a pool against their will.

The term "poaching" was deployed back in the day to elicit an exaggerated sense of grievance and in an attempt to impress the perception that something grubby and underhanded was going on when players declared their intentions. Silly language.

By the way, I don't think Michael O'Neill would be so philosophical and evasive if Ronan Hale was playing at a higher level, nor should he be. Any coach worth their salt should always aim to maximise the talent available to them.

You mention salt and poaching, which makes me think of eggs.

Might be a better thread for this - but similar to Ronan Hale.

Stuff on Twitter about Kevin Zefi accepting a call up to Albania u21s. Could be a huge loss. He’s got so much potential but also so much work to do to get to what he could be…

Maybe a symptom of not having a senior manager for 7 months. Who’s charged with convincing him that he has a future with Ireland? Jim Crawford?

Maybe it’s a case of him knowing he’s not part of the 21s plans and not eligible for the 19s - so Albania have asked him to come train with the 21s and see what he thinks…

In that case, it probably goes down to not having a u20 team, which would be a perfect way to keep the 2004 and 2005 kids involved. Lots of them are going to be very important for us in the next campaign but not yet ready for 21s.

Is the lad even playing football these days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Is the lad even playing football these days?

---

Not really - has had 3 different injuries in the last 12 months. think he chose to go to Roma over Newcastle. Or at least Newcastle tried to sign both him and Cathal Heffernan and succeeded in signing just Heffernan, could obviously have been an issue with fee or sell on percentage or whatever as well. Rocco Vata is only playing in the lowlands league (and is rightly a shoe-in for the 21s squad)

Once again, if you've got a u20s team - there's a whole swathe of players doing good bad and indifferent but there's clearly enough talent that you want them kicking on with the underage sides.

Off the top of my head from 2005: Franco Umeh, Zefi, Heffernan, Caden McLoughlin, Justin Ferizaj, Conor Walsh, Ronnie McGrath, Thomas Bloxham, McMannus, Adam Murphy, Freddie Gibbard, Joe O'Brien-Whitmarsh, Alex Nolan and the 2004 kids like Owen Mason, Reece Byrne, Aaron Maguire, James Abankwah, Josh Seary, Jacob Slater, John Ryan, John Clarke, Cian Coleman, Ed McJannett, Harry Vaughan, Ronan Maher, Glory Nzingo, Dara McGuinness, Ben Quinn, Luke Pearce, Tommy Lonergan. Just a shame that those guys are probably gonna go 2-3 years without playing for Ireland when it would be easy to have a different solution...

I thought Zefi had played for our U21s, which would make him ineligible for Albania until the next campaign, but i can only find games up to U19 level for him

Yeah don't think he's ever gotten an U21s call up and wouldn't be surprised if the switch is something to do with that because he feels he's being overlooked as others have gotten called up before him.

There's no doubting the kids got talent but there's also a vibe of this lad thinks he's much better than what he is. Always was more impressed with Vata when both played for Ireland and while it's never nice if a player switches there's other younger players which also look as talented as he did at underage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Intersting to see Cead McGrath in the NI squad. Saw him play for us at u15 and u16 level

---

Majority of that side seem to have played Gaelic and/or attended a Catholic school or live in ROI.

McDonnell, McDonnell, McCann, Leacock, Gamble, Kerr, Atherton, O'Neill and maybe McGovern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Majority of that side seem to have played Gaelic and/or attended a Catholic school or live in ROI.

McDonnell, McDonnell, McCann, Leacock, Gamble, Kerr, Atherton, O'Neill and maybe McGovern.

---

I thought this short interview was thought provoking for us traditional republican s https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-ceadach-oneill , devout Catholic playing for linfield while playing gaelic utterly proud to represent N.I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liamoo11

I thought this short interview was thought provoking for us traditional republican s https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-ceadach-oneill , devout Catholic playing for linfield while playing gaelic utterly proud to represent N.I

---

That's interesting. I'm sure it is the case for most of the lads in that squad from similar backgrounds. They simply identify more closely with NI than ROI. Probably see themselves as Irish and Northern Irish and the latter is more localized and familiar to them than the alternative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I'm sure it is the case for most of the lads in that squad from similar backgrounds. They simply identify more closely with NI than ROI. Probably see themselves as Irish and Northern Irish and the latter is more localized and familiar to them than the alternative.

---

Indeed.

If you look at Rugby for instance, NI Unionists are able to separate their sporting interests from their personal politics and go to Lansdowne to cheer on Ireland, tricolours, Soldiers Song and all. So why should NI Nationalists* be that much different when it comes to their own sporting interests?

And seeing as though they haven't lived through 30 years of The Troubles, I would guess that this ability to keep the two separate is even more prevalent amongst the younger generation, thereby offering hope for all of us, Nationalist, Unionist, North or South.


* - Daithi McCallion (Derry City/Finn Harps/Ballymena) is an interesting example. He's happily represented NI at under-age levels, while also being the son of Elisha, ex-Sinn Fein MP and Senator etc and nephew of Martina Anderson (SF/IRA etc).

Comrades all, you might say.

Might as well just reunify then!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Might as well just reunify then!

---

We’d certainly have a better chance of having a meaningful tournament once in a while

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

Intersting to see Cead McGrath in the NI squad. Saw him play for us at u15 and u16 level

---

Goes to school in Omagh. Came through underage setup at Finn Harps initially before deciding to play for Sligo. Left them halfway through the season to sign for Derry and has largely played under-20s there. Potential to be a decent player but another who lets others make his choices for him. Don't see him being anything more than a decent LOI centre half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

* - Daithi McCallion (Derry City/Finn Harps/Ballymena) is an interesting example. He's happily represented NI at under-age levels, while also being the son of Elisha, ex-Sinn Fein MP and Senator etc and nephew of Martina Anderson (SF/IRA etc).

---

Makes no apologies for it either. A great lad with a super attitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Might as well just reunify then!

---

If you're prepared to admit your original mistake back in the day and ask to be re-admitted to the IFA - "Original and (George) Best" - we might consider it.

But you'd have to ask nicely.

And prepare to be disappointed. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

We’d certainly have a better chance of having a meaningful tournament once in a while

---

Yes, Conor Bradley would fix all our problems

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samhaydenjr

Yes, Conor Bradley would fix all our problems

---

He’d fix one problem anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elatedscum

He’d fix one problem anyway

---

https://i.imgflip.com/98iomn.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If you're prepared to admit your original mistake back in the day and ask to be re-admitted to the IFA - "Original and (George) Best" - we might consider it.

But you'd have to ask nicely.

And prepare to be disappointed. :cool:

---

Nah, but we'd play the odd friendly at Windsor to keep you sweet. Maybe a women's game or two as well. Similar to the IRFU and Ravenhill!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Nah, but we'd play the odd friendly at Windsor to keep you sweet. Maybe a women's game or two as well. Similar to the IRFU and Ravenhill!

---

In your dreams.

Anyhow, what is it with you lot? Surely the whole thing about being a supporter [sic] is that you support your team through thick and thin? Or thin and thinner, as is often the case with OWC. Or are you really so fickle that after a few defeats*, you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

I mean, with Bohs going through a hard time just now, is anyone suggesting they merge eg with Shams? Or Dundalk with Drogs?

Anyhow, as far as we're concerned, being a fan is summed up by our favourite song: "We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland, but it's all the same to me!"


* - Funny how we never hear any of this unity talk after you've strung together a few wins. Embarrassing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

In your dreams.

Anyhow, what is it with you lot? Surely the whole thing about being a supporter [sic] is that you support your team through thick and thin? Or thin and thinner, as is often the case with OWC. Or are you really so fickle that after a few defeats*, you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

I mean, with Bohs going through a hard time just now, is anyone suggesting they merge eg with Shams? Or Dundalk with Drogs?

Anyhow, as far as we're concerned, being a fan is summed up by our favourite song: "We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland, but it's all the same to me!"


* - Funny how we never hear any of this unity talk after you've strung together a few wins. Embarrassing.

---

" So, you're saying there's a chance "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

you want to scrap your team and follow some other makey-uppy effort?

---

I preface this by saying its not intended to be as goading as it first reads, but us all coming through an education system which regards the north itself as the makey uppy thing which should not have existed has an influence on that probably.

And it was, y'know, makey uppy ta fcuk. Gerrymandering masterclass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

I preface this by saying its not intended to be as goading as it first reads, but us all coming through an education system which regards the north itself as the makey uppy thing which should not have existed has an influence on that probably.

And it was, y'know, makey uppy ta fcuk. Gerrymandering masterclass.

---

I have no more interest in your personal politics than you (presumably) have in mine, for to do so would sorely miss the point.

For as I frequently feel forced to point out*, these national football teams do not represent "countries", however you care to define the latter, rather they (former) represent National Associations, in your case the FAI, in mine the IFA.

And as such, I am perfectly happy to carry on supporting my team, whether we win, draw or lose, with no more interest in following an all-Ireland team than an all-UK one.

Now if your education causes you to mix politics and sport (imo unnecessarily and unhelpfully), and so demand an all-Ireland team, then knock yourself out. For not only is it pretty pointless after 103 years(!), but the irony is that due to your government's (if I may say so) idiosyncratic and irridentist take on nationality etc, you are entitled to exploit FIFA's eligibility rules and construct a de facto all-Ireland team anyhow!

So that if our players aren't good enough for your team, then what is the problem? While if they are good enough, but you cannot persuade them to play for you, then that decidedly is your problem, not ours!

Either way, your advocacy of an all-Ireland team would deny the likes of Conor Bradley a choice as to who he represents, whereas I accept and respect his right to choose. So which of us is the "gerrymanderer" there, eh?


* - See eg post #5: https://foot.ie/threads/295930-UEFA-...ualifiers-2024

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I have no more interest in your personal politics than you (presumably) have in mine, for to do so would sorely miss the point.

For as I frequently feel forced to point out*, these national football teams do not represent "countries", however you care to define the latter, rather they (former) represent National Associations, in your case the FAI, in mine the IFA.

And as such, I am perfectly happy to carry on supporting my team, whether we win, draw or lose, with no more interest in following an all-Ireland team than an all-UK one.

Now if your education causes you to mix politics and sport (imo unnecessarily and unhelpfully), and so demand an all-Ireland team, then knock yourself out. For not only is it pretty pointless after 103 years(!), but the irony is that due to your government's (if I may say so) idiosyncratic and irridentist take on nationality etc, you are entitled to exploit FIFA's eligibility rules and construct a de facto all-Ireland team anyhow!

So that if our players aren't good enough for your team, then what is the problem? While if they are good enough, but you cannot persuade them to play for you, then that decidedly is your problem, not ours!

Either way, your advocacy of an all-Ireland team would deny the likes of Conor Bradley a choice as to who he represents, whereas I accept and respect his right to choose. So which of us is the "gerrymanderer" there, eh?


* - See eg post #5: https://foot.ie/threads/295930-UEFA-...ualifiers-2024

---

Isn't there a thread about eligibility that's been ruined by all this nonsense could rhe 17s thread be left to football?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liamoo11

Isn't there a thread about eligibility that's been ruined by all this nonsense could rhe 17s thread be left to football?

---

Actually, it's not about eligibility per se, it's about an all-Ireland team.

Which subject was first brought up and perpetuated by some of your fellow ROI fans, who were looking at NI's U-17's and speculating on their possibly representing ROI etc - see posts #11, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23, 25 and 28.

So that if they didn't keep bringing this up after every run of poor results etc, maybe you could just get on with following your team, while I could follow mine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Actually, it's not about eligibility per se, it's about an all-Ireland team.

Which subject was first brought up and perpetuated by some of your fellow ROI fans, who were looking at NI's U-17's and speculating on their possibly representing ROI etc - see posts #11, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23, 25 and 28.

So that if they didn't keep bringing this up after every run of poor results etc, maybe you could just get on with following your team, while I could follow mine?

---

This thread though is about our under 17s .Some of the players representing the North may represent us in the future and some of ours may represent other international sides in the future also that's the game. The rest of the philosophical nonsense just clogs up the thread and just rehashes what's been discussed previously in the eligibility thread or some similiar thread. Can't you just revive those thread s and post in it for this stuff and leave this thread to the actual football ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liamoo11

This thread though is about our under 17s .Some of the players representing the North may represent us in the future and some of ours may represent other international sides in the future also that's the game. The rest of the philosophical nonsense just clogs up the thread and just rehashes what's been discussed previously in the eligibility thread or some similiar thread. Can't you just revive those thread s and post in it for this stuff and leave this thread to the actual football ?

---

I was merely responding to those of your fellow ROI fans who originally brought up the subject of an all-Ireland team on this thread, so why don't you address your plea to them?

For if they stop doing so, then I won't feel obliged to keep pointing out why their suggestion of unilaterally doing away with the team I have been supporting for over half a century, from Belfast to Belarus, Croatia to Kazakhstan, is so offensive to me and my fellow NI fans.

Or am I not permitted to respond? You know, as one of those people that they claim they want to unite [sic] with?

The only person bombarding us with lengthy posts about it is you. It's no harm at all to have a poster or two on here who has alternative views to the rest of the group, the equivalent forum for the north would benefit from it too if it was tolerated there. But maybe next time a friendly suggestion would be to not take the bait so easily on stuff like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

The only person bombarding us with lengthy posts about it is you. It's no harm at all to have a poster or two on here who has alternative views to the rest of the group, the equivalent forum for the north would benefit from it too if it was tolerated there. But maybe next time a friendly suggestion would be to not take the bait so easily on stuff like this.

---

There are two matters here.

1. Under FIFA Rules, letter and principle, it is simply impossible for them to permit one NT drawn from two separate, independent nation states. And even should Ireland become united (and I'm not holding my breath on that one), it is by no means guaranteed that the FAI and IFA would be forced to merge - as the continued existence of the Hong Kong and Macao NT's demonstrates.
Yet despite this, the same witless posters routinely bring up this tired old notion every time ROI loses a few games (though never while they're winning). Pathetic.

2. These self-same people seeking "unity" utterly fail to understand just how antagonising, therefore self-defeating, such calls are, since rather than a voluntary merger of equals, you just know that what they really mean is to keep essentially the same old FAI team, only with a couple of added Northerners. Which must mean the destruction of the same NI team (over 100 years old) plus the IFA, (144 years old), which I and so many others have followed all our lives. Cannot you/they not understand just how utterly unacceptable/offensive this is?
I mean, would you like your team, club or NT, to be taken away from you against your will?

Therefore so long as there are people in ROI periodically calling for an all-Ireland team in these circumstances, then NI fans will continue to push back. Get used to it.

You will be assimilated.

The GFA & the de facto all Ireland team already in existence and all the yadda yadda about Hong Kong won't change that. There will be one resting point in this, an acceptable one to nationalist Ireland, the rest is just stages on that journey.

Quote whatever polls you like now there & demographics while you're at it.

You will be assimilated.

The "same witless posters", eh?

In the interests of parity of esteem, surely aspiration to - and therefore discussion of - a unified Ireland team is just as legitimate as wanting to keep a team for the IFA? Claiming it's "antagonistic" and "offensive" to simply want a united Ireland team in football is just another way to shut down the discussion. You might well mourn the end of an institution. Go ahead, change is tough. But the FAI, and team, as it was will change in this future too.

FIFA could suddenly make some changes (they have been chopping and changing a lot lately) but I don't think a unified team will come before political unity. When that happens, to bring it back somewhat on topic, it will be interesting to see if British nationality alone would permit a player to play for the unified team, for a period. Or if those 'marooned' in the new Ireland could opt to play for another British team...