Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Pretty sure he's not eligible, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

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only throughout several comrades of the cause, over the last five years or more time like 8 years when Trap. Forde was the keeper.

He Is the guy who used to play for Reading when a bunch of irish were there as well

Even though we are desperate for keepers. Just no no. The man has played for England. He is not Irish please no

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Even though we are desperate for keepers. Just no no. The man has played for England. He is not Irish please no

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We need cover for Randolph just in case Westwood retires

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Even though we are desperate for keepers. Just no no. The man has played for England. He is not Irish please no

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He may not want to play for us and the England Goalkeeping spot is not exactly tied down ! !

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

He may not want to play for us and the England Goalkeeping spot is not exactly tied down ! !

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I checked, some irish journalists said so and the player Shane Long back in 2011, he talked about him and Alex Pearce

Wasn't really sure which section to put this one into.

An interesting discussion on the history of the football split in Ireland, an All Ireland team, an AIL, flags and anthems etc, etc.




Irish Soccer, Past History and Future Prospects

"The history of the IFA and FAI and the potential and the challenges of bringing them together. Speakers: Cormac Moore an Irish historian to address the history of the two organisations. Gerry Carlile a businessman and sports agent, addressing future issues. Chair: Brendan Crossan, Irish News Sports Commentator."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctehoBoGO7Y

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

Frankly I find it insulting to the kids and their families who might not be ethnically 100% Irish, but are as committed as those who are. It's an insult to their own backgrounds, to their local clubs and coaches, and to us as well. I'm not necessarily throwing punches at you specifically backs, but this is a narrative that's almost out of control on social media - cap him, tie him down - it's a moveable feast with FIFA, and they'll continue to change goalposts as they see fit, or as money sees fit.
Just look at the current 17s squad. On name alone - without knowing much about them - there's maybe 10 that have dual heritage at least. That's the type of ratio that we'll be looking at for years to come.

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Tsk, in your head maybe. Gibberish. The reality is there are a lot of dual nationality kids out there, its a FACT. You are allowed to have dual nationality. I hope some day my two kids can play for their country......but what country is that who knows! No one cares.

You’re a bit dim at the best times Bennocelt. Hopefully the kids take after their mother

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

You’re a bit dim at the best times Bennocelt. Hopefully the kids take after their mother

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He's only a bit dim some of the time but he's capable of owning up to it , potentially.
But re FIFA's changing their goalposts, I do not agree with you. The FIFA regulations on eligibility do change but for the most part it's an evolution in favor of the rights of the dual national player.
The changes have nothing to do with money or favoring the big nations. Possibly there are votes to be gained from the ex colonial country in Africa but i think that motive has little currency.

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Originally Posted by geysir

But re FIFA's changing their goalposts, I do not agree with you. The FIFA regulations on eligibility do change but for the most part it's an evolution in favor of the rights of the dual national player.
The changes have nothing to do with money or favoring the big nations. Possibly there are votes to be gained from the ex colonial country in Africa but i think that motive has little currency.

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I have no problem with dual, triple or whatever rights players. I have them in my own extended family. I don't see how Irish people of all nationalities could be opposed to it.
The comment about FiFA changing goalposts to suit them - I never mentioned big nations? My comment was in relation to the notion that capping a player - Obafemi for example - to tie him down, becomes irrelevant if FIFA changes the rules subsequently. Which they have done a few times on "nationality". We should cap players who deserve to be capped, nothing else.

Interesting reading recently : https://www.the42.ie/ireland-eligibi...76145-Oct2021/

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Originally Posted by Ogbene

“I guess it was the best decision that he made for his family, and I’m reaping the rewards for being here.” Stephen Kenny made Ogbene’s eligibility for Ireland a priority, and set it in motion on his second day in the job.

“There was a long process to get him registered to play for us”, said Kenny. “The process was with Uefa and Fifa, and having to trawl through records, which I didn’t feel was right. He was living in Cork since he was seven.”

It took 14 months and reams of paperwork to satisfy Fifa’s requests. Ogbene submitted school records from primary school and secondary school, a chronology of the family’s time in Ireland, a proof of address, proof of his parents’ jobs, and character references from teachers and the local community.

All had to be done to comply with Fifa’s shifting eligibility rules. Under the latest guidelines, the FAI and Ogbene had to show that he had lived here for three years before the age of 10, and also prove he did not move here solely so Ogbene would become a professional footballer.

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And the other side of this, rough on him as it seems he's still not 'Irish' which is ridiculous IMO.

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Originally Posted by Maxim Kouogun

Maxim Kouogun moved to Ireland when he was five months old, holds Irish citizenship, but he has yet to be deemed eligible to play football for Ireland.

Kouogun was born in Cameroon but was all of five months old when his parents moved to Ireland, initially to Celbridge and then to Leixlip. “They came here for a better life”, says Kouogun, “a better standard of life and future for myself and my siblings.”It was while at Cherry Orchard that Kouogun came to the attention of Tom Mohan, then the Irish U17s manager.

By this point Kouogun had Irish citizenship – granted when his mother was granted hers – and was selected in the squad for a double-header of European qualifiers in Armenia.

“The squad was announced on the Monday or Tuesday and we were due to travel on the Saturday”, he remembers. “Then, on Wednesday evening, Tom Mohan gave me a call to ask if I was born in Ireland. I told him ‘No, but I have my citizenship.’ He said, ‘No problem, I am going to ring you tomorrow to clarify a few things.’

“I was completely in the dark and didn’t know what was happening. The following day – I don’t mean to sound bad or anything – but I was excited and went and bought new football boots for my trip. My mum picked me up from Liffey Valley with my new boots but while I was at school she had taken a call from Tom Mohan to say I couldn’t travel because of eligibility issues.“I hadn’t a clue. I was under the impression I was Irish. I came here when I was five months old, I had my Irish citizenship as I had been in the country for so long and had gone through the schooling system. I was Irish. My mum was Irish, my siblings were Irish. Myself and my mum had Irish citizenship, my two younger siblings were born here. I was completely unaware that there would be any doubt about my eligibility.”

Mohan could play Kouogun in friendly matches – he excelled in one appearance against Latvia – but couldn’t play him in competitive matches, and thus began the long process to prove to Fifa he was eligible to play for Ireland.

“I was told by the FAI that Fifa required school transcripts, proof of attendance through all of primary school and proof of attendance through all of secondary school. I remember I had to submit a proof of address of where I was living, and I remember going into Garda station and having to request a letter from them as well.”

Meanwhile, the years ticked by. He got a scholarship to UCD, playing there while getting degrees at undergraduate and masters level. While he had opportunities at club level, nothing was moving at international level.

Having missed his chance with the U17s, Paul Doolin tried to cap him with the U19s, but that chance slipped by too. Same story when it came to Noel King with the U21s.

“I was in and out of the FAI, submitting paperwork, from school transcripts to garda letters proving my proof of address since I was in the country, school reports. Everything. And it never manifested into success.

“Anytime they came back requesting a document, I provided it, but it never seemed to manifest in success.”

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Would Hondermarck have to jump through the same hoops?

It's ridiculous that children are being treated with the same scrutiny as adult, already professional players moving and becoming residents.

Wouldn't these rules make it difficult for Odubeko to get his dream England cap too? He literally only moved there to become a professional

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Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut

Would Hondermarck have to jump through the same hoops?

It's ridiculous that children are being treated with the same scrutiny as adult, already professional players moving and becoming residents.

Wouldn't these rules make it difficult for Odubeko to get his dream England cap too? He literally only moved there to become a professional

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Being born an EU citizen might help Hondermarck get his paperwork sorted faster. Has his Irish passport since last year according to an interview a few days ago and seems to be in some contact with Jim Crawford. If it does drag on his mother is Congolese born so could play with them.

I was under the impression that once you had a passport you were eligible but it seems not ? Crazy. I’d much rather see the likes of Ogbene playing for us than some second or third generation lad who has never set foot in the country. Nothing against those guys, but I don’t see how you can have the same feeling as someone who grew up here.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

I was under the impression that once you had a passport you were eligible but it seems not ? Crazy. I’d much rather see the likes of Ogbene playing for us than some second or third generation lad who has never set foot in the country. Nothing against those guys, but I don’t see how you can have the same feeling as someone who grew up here.

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Fully agree, it makes little sense. In the full article, both players reference Quatari behaviour in importing players for their national side as the reason they faced this, Quatar get to host a world cup & Kougoun will most likely never represent, at any level, the country he sees as his, which it is.

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Originally Posted by TonyD

I was under the impression that once you had a passport you were eligible but it seems not ? Crazy. I’d much rather see the likes of Ogbene playing for us than some second or third generation lad who has never set foot in the country. Nothing against those guys, but I don’t see how you can have the same feeling as someone who grew up here.

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I think there have been quite a few 2nd generation players who have had a real affinity with Ireland starting with the likes of Shay Brennan and Charley Gallagher. Kilbane would be the outstanding example, but there are many more Walters, Aldridge, Sheedy, Carsley etc who were clearly not playing for us for opportunistic reasons. There have been a few mercenaries along the way too. The worrying thing is that we have missed out on so many 2nd G players of late for reasons that have more to with career prospects than identity or affinity. Playing for England has a massive income generating potential, and the prospect of almost automatic qualification for tournaments. It’s probably not a coincidence that we attracted more 2nd and 3rd G players when we had a better team and got to finals.

Don't think you can have a discussion of that without mentioning the guy who wore an Ireland jersey to school in England on a certain June day in 1988!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Don't think you can have a discussion of that without mentioning the guy who wore an Ireland jersey to school in England on a certain June day in 1988!

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Brings a shiver to the spine! Love it.

Shivers in more ways than one...:excruciating:

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Don't think you can have a discussion of that without mentioning the guy who wore an Ireland jersey to school in England on a certain June day in 1988!

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In fairness in those days there was probably a lot of Irish Kids ( well children of Irish People ) in some of the London schools.

And in Preston?

Darragh Burns in the process of switching allegiance from the north
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-40978407.html

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Darragh Burns in the process of switching allegiance from the north
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-40978407.html

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Great news. He’s a serious talent, as he showed again on Friday night. Looking forward to seeing him in the Cup Final on the Aviva pitch. No reason why he can’t go on to become a senior international. Sadly that will probably only happen if he leaves Pats to go across the water. Just hoping we can hang onto him for a while longer.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

I think there have been quite a few 2nd generation players who have had a real affinity with Ireland starting with the likes of Shay Brennan and Charley Gallagher. Kilbane would be the outstanding example, but there are many more Walters, Aldridge, Sheedy, Carsley etc who were clearly not playing for us for opportunistic reasons. There have been a few mercenaries along the way too. The worrying thing is that we have missed out on so many 2nd G players of late for reasons that have more to with career prospects than identity or affinity. Playing for England has a massive income generating potential, and the prospect of almost automatic qualification for tournaments. It’s probably not a coincidence that we attracted more 2nd and 3rd G players when we had a better team and got to finals.

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I wasn’t really doubting any of that, especially in the case of Kilbane. Always loved his attitude. For a lot of the others though, I imagine it was more of a good career move. And I’m not necessarily knocking that. Andy Townsend would be a prime example. No way was he champing at the bit to play for us, but when the chance came to play international football he said yes, and he always performed well in the green shirt. To be honest, if we are missing out on lads at the moment because we’re not doing so well, than I’m ok with that too. The likes of Rice and Grealish I have no problem waving on their way.

What’s the deal with Conor Gallagher? Is he eligible?

Rules are as clear as mud now but seemingly once you play a competitive game at any level after turning 21, then you're tied to that country. Gallagher has played for England 21s since turning 21 so would tie him down.

Not that it matters, he's a nailed on future England international and has no reason to change.

Covid reasons in TAS COULD help

Meanwhile, in other sports: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/...-rugby-motion/

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The new regulation, which will come into effect from 1 January 2022, had been lobbied for in particular by the Pacific Rugby Players Welfare group in recent years.
It means that players can represent a second team in Test rugby, provided they have a blood connection to the country, and have not been capped in the previous three years.

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Imagine if this was the rule in football. Who would we be after?

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Meanwhile, in other sports: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/...-rugby-motion/



Imagine if this was the rule in football. Who would we be after?

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Maybe, Nathan Redmond. Genuinely can’t think of anyone else worth choosing. Cahill is no better than what we have at CB . I’d be surprised if either Maddison or Michael Keane get another cap, but we ‘d need to wait a year or two before they qualified.

Jonjo Shelvey would have been worth a squad place at times.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

Jonjo Shelvey would have been worth a squad place at times.

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He'd walk into our team. For all his weaknesses, his range of passing is phenomenal. Keeping Jeff Hendrick out of the Newcastle team consistently

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Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut

He'd walk into our team. For all his weaknesses, his range of passing is phenomenal. Keeping Jeff Hendrick out of the Newcastle team consistently

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Remember we offered him the chance to come on board for the euros in 2012 to no avail.

Ryan Bertrand? Aaron Lennon?

The UTV are showing a documentary about the whole thing now, so expect a load of fuss over this in the next few days.

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/spo...soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/spo...soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

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I didn't read in the article where the courts in Ecuador made a decision on the citizen status of Castillo, did I miss it?

Sorry, I got that from some Spanish language news sites, here's one example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/247news...850.html%3famp

From reading the New Yorker article, basically Chile's case was that Castillo had faked his birth cert in order to be eligible to play for Ecuador and Chile's evidence for this had already been discredited. Deep echoes of desperate IFA shenanigans in that one :D . FIFA don't rule on citizenship, they rule on eligibility to play, citizenship papers are just a part of that.
There were various player nationality disputes in Africa around the the time of intl qualifiers some years ago when chief suspect Cape Verde were flying high (discussed in this thread) which might fit that scenario. At least one team were punished with a 3 nil defeat. But I'd say the FIFA rulings were more about eligibility factors rather than contradicting a State's judgement on citizenship status.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Mentioned it in the World Cup thread, but have been interested to follow along the case of Ecuador's Byron Castillo over the last few days. Chile claimed he was actually born in Colombia, so not eligible to represent Ecuador, Ecuador, up as far as their courts, disagreed: https://www.newyorker.com/sports/spo...soccer-in-2022

FIFA rejected Chile's claim today, but it got me wondering: has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

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This is a story that isn't going away just yet, with Chile appealing on the grounds of a 2018 audio interview, conducted by the Ecuadorian football association, where the player in question appears to admit that his passport is fraudulant: https://www.football365.com/news/ecu...ke-id-cover-up

Ruling due on Thursday. At this stage Chile might not even benefit: there would be an argument that Peru, knocked out in the Intercontinentals by Australia, should be allowed the place instead, as they would have qualified automatically if results where Castillo played were turned into 3-0 walkovers.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

has their ever been a case where FIFA ruled on the citizenship status of a player in opposition to a court of law from the country concerned?

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FIFA don't reall rule on citizenship, more on elgibility (which is stricter than citizenship - you can be a citizen but still not be eligible), but you'd have to imagine that they'd not go against a court that had said X was not even a citizen of that country.