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This is only the case if he has formally requested a switch to Sweden or if he needed to? If he hasn't made an official request yet then there's nothing tying him to Sweden moreso than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Yeah, that's the new rules if it gets approved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Au contraire, the odds are that the more screwed on journalists will be on here to find out what's what. One our most learned members, Danny Invincible wrote the treatise on FIFA eligibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Now he'll probably have to update it, hopefully he will return here.
Eirambler's question assumed Ryan had already applied to FIFA for the switch. And Ryan would have to apply to FIFA to switch from Luxembourg, no question.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
It is more likely that Ryan's request to transfer to ireland was halted at the FIFA office, regardless of any intervention by Luxembourg FA.. FIFA would have been presented with a list of Ryan's Luxembourg games and a copy of his irish passport.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Since he has personally stated his declaration for Sweden and has been quoted how happy he is with that decision, with their style of play and longs to play for them at a Finals, perhaps offering an indirect little barb at Ireland's style of play and lack of Finals appearances.
I think it's fair enough to opine that he has chosen his nest and not likely to reconsider, even if he was eligibile to.
So why wouldn't Callum Robinson have been halted too so ?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
As I understood it Luxembourg kicking up has caused all this.
It's all down to quirk in our national law with the foreign births register, which I imagine FIFA were entirely unaware of prior to Luxembourg kicking off alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Decided to go and read the full document before posting further, so that hopefully what I post from here on is correct...
So it appears that there are positives and negatives to what's in the document from an Irish POV - hopefully we can benefit from the positives and defend ourselves as best we can against the negatives.
The positives as I see it:
- It seems to resolve the Irish foreign birth register issue for the most part
- Dan Crowley can now play for us
- The likes of Bamford and Mikey Johnston, among others potentially caught by the FBR issue can also play for us if they decided they wanted to (doubt either of those two will)
- Also, some previous switchers can, if they wished to, switch back to us (if they have never played for the country they switched to competitively at underage level or won any senior caps)
- Future granny rule qualifiers won't be ruled out of playing for us if they play underage for another country, only if they represent that country's senior team
- If someone like Joe Hodge decided to switch to England, he wouldn't automatically be lost to us, it would only happen if he played a competitive underage game for them or got a senior cap
- Callum Robinson is actually eligible to play for us now, which is nice!
The negatives:
- Obafemi is no longer Irish confirmed - as things stand he could be capped by England or Nigeria from November next year onward
- We can't confirm the likes of Smallbone by playing him in the Nations League or playoffs, until he's capped after his 21st birthday or we cap him four times.
- We can't confirm any dual national aged under 21 for us unless we cap them four times (possibly including at least one competitive cap?) or cap them at a tournament finals
- If Johansson has sent through his paperwork for Sweden he now can't play for us (if he hasn't sent it through he would now be eligible for Ireland, although that ship has sailed I think)
- Someone like Marcus McGuane, who played competitively for us at underage and then played competitively for England at underage, still cannot switch back to us because of those competitive appearances. This seems to rule out Grealish for us as well (unlikely he was going to switch back anyway).
- it's just a lot harder to understand overall
- there's likely to be a lot more South Americans playing for middle east and far east nations as a result of this
Obviously all this is subject to the document being ratified by FIFA next month, though that will most likely be a formality.
All in all, not as bad as I had originally feared. Feel free to correct me if any of the above is wrong, it really is a minefield now with so many different rules for different situations.
But jack grealish like Johansson sent in his paperwork. Surely they are either both gone or both available ?
Apparently not. Grealish hasn't yet played for England so would be allowed to switch back to Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Similarly Johansson hasn't played for Sweden so would be allowed to switch back to Luxembourg.
The problem for us with Johansson is that, if his Sweden switch has gone through, we're now his third country and there doesn't seem to be any provision for a third country in the new regulations.
Edit: Looks like Grealish is ineligible also after playing for England under 21s. So they're probably both ineligible, but for different reasons!
This is the only one I interpreted differently. Why can't he switch back? He hasn't played 3 times at senior level or played for England over the age of 21. My interpretation is he can switch after 3 years have passed since his last England appearance? Why is he different to Grealish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I could be wrong too!
OK, so I'm interpreting Section 9, part 5 of the document.
5. A player that was:
a) granted a change of association; and
b) was not fielded in a match in any (official or unofficial) competition in any kind of football by the
new association,
may request a change of association back to his former association provided he continues to hold
the nationality of such association.
I took that to mean that McGuane can't switch back because he represented England competitively after he switched from us.
Were any of Grealish's England Under 21 caps competitive? If they were then he would be in the same position as McGuane - they could actually both still be ineligible?
Yeah he played in the 2017 U21 Euros for them. Looks like they're both still ineligible so!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
He was an unused sub in every game at the finals though.
According to transfermarkt he played 7 times for England Under 21s - 6 friendlies and 73 minutes in one European championship qualifier. Quite possibly that one appearance in the qualifier is what now makes him ineligible for us.
It says any game, official or unofficial though. So as soon as you played a minute for England, he became ineligible for us forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
When does this lunacy of a law change get formally decided?
FIFA Congress September 18th. It's an online event, I think the rule changes will be ratified with little or no debate to be honest.
It will be hard to take. If we lose a player under these proposals. So obafemi could play and score against Slovakia and let's say Bosnia also and then say Im off guys .
No he'd have to wait three years from his last Ireland cap to switch. But we haven't capped him since November 2018. So he could switch next year (I don't think he will, by the way - he's just the most obvious example).
Oh so with the new rule. Would Rice of had to have waited 3 years as well or friendly games still dont count in any wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Yes exactly that. The wording is belowQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
v) at least three years have passed since being fielded for his last match at “A” internationallevel in any kind of football for his current association, whether in an official competition or non-official competition;
I think overall this is very good for us. It clears up the foreign births register issue while also putting a bigger penalty on players like Declan Rice. Can't be happy to take friendly caps and play for another country a few months later. We don't want to be giving time to those players anyway and this forces their hand more.
The only potential negative from this is Obafemi and even then, he's an unlikely flight risk.
In future if we cap a player, they're locked out of international football for 3 years if they try to switch or if any granny rule players decide to switch then they're good to go.
So this is really helpful for us, there is zero chance of anyone who plays for us waiting 3 years to transfer
No one who is wanted will do that
only the Alex bruces of this world will go, but that's because they aren't in our managers thoughts
This is great news guys
I just thought of something else
I wouldn't want it, but it would be legal
Someone could play for England as a young player then fall out of favor and then if they would qualify for us, they could play for us etc etc
I really wouldn't want that though
Yes that's possible!The distinction being they didn't have to file paper work to make the one-off switch. So Rice was ineligible for us as soon as he kicked a ball for England at any level, but could switch back if he's never picked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
However if the likes of Louie Barry etc. go through the ranks of England, he could play 3 qualifiers before he turns 21 and then declare for us 3 years after his last senior appearance.
Once Obafemi is tied to us, I don't see a negative to this. He'll be confirmed once he makes his 4th appearance of any kind at senior level or he appears once after his 21st birthday in July 2021
Crowley should be good to go as soon as this passes too.
I'm sure Paul O'Shea will arrive soon to correct me but Obafemi is not a flight risk full stop. He's made his position clear and he's very happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Thought O'Neill tied him to us in Nations League no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
There's a rule change floating around, have a look in other threads, game changer if ratified.
The whole Obafemi "flight risk" thing is absurd. I doubt he's going to sit out three years to play for Nigeria based on one snub. In any event, it's a non-starter unless that rule is actually implemented.
He would hypothetically have to wait 15 months. But correct he is going nowhereQuote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
As a side note, it's nice that Kenny is so committed to his system that he'd choose to bring a largely unproven guy like Parrot and leave Obafemi out, but I honestly think this could have been handled better. Oba has really had a great start to his career with Southampton and surely there was a way to include him or deliberately have a private chat about the thinking behind closed doors. Maybe that's overly coddling Obafemi but on paper I think the player has a right to be disappointed. He's doing well with Saints and Parrot has realistically done nothing to earn a call-up ahead of him (that said hope he's banging them in with Millwall shortly).
We're bound to be a bit delicate in these matters after the two claret and blue lads carry on. Hopefully is doesn't drag on or turn into a thing, because the media will only love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
The FAI were required to present extensive documentation to support Ryan's switch application, one such document was an exact list of games that Ryan played for Luxembourg. That document is mandatory, failure to provide such a document that affects the status of the application is interpreted as deception and heavy sanctions can follow, eg a 3 nil loss in every game that player plays in, should the opposition object within the allowed time (24hours?). That happened in Africa some years ago. The onus is on the association making the application to present all the documentation to FIFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Whether Luxembourg made noise or not is irrelevant, the document of Ryans's Luxembourg international record had to be presented to FIFA legal dept. as well as a copy of Ryan's irish nationality status, passport etc.
Who knows what happened with Callum, either the FAI did not present all the documentation or the manipulative hand of Delaney eg. brought in a few documents to the legal dept and asked for them to be approved, said it was all kosher but "we" need to rush it.
So this happened over and over down the years geysir and no player was blocked before, then Luxembourg object and the lad is suddenly blocked and its upheld, yet the Luxembourg input is irrelevant ? OK :)
And Robinson was a brown envelope job. Ok :)
eligibility players to pursue in my modest opinion
Mikey Johnston
Daniel Crowley
Ryan Johansson
Nathan Redmond
Paddy Bamford
Alex McCarthy
Alfie McCalmont
Think a bit before replying. sarcasm don't make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
The real conspiracy is the opinion that it was dem Luxembourgians who caused it and stopped Ryan from switching to Ireland.
It happened before in Africa because the relevent associations did not present all the documents, had they presented all the documents to FIFA they would not have been sactioned. And I would not put it past the the FAI under Delaney to pull some stroke. Is that a conspiratorial thought?
Have you any other examples apart from Callum whereby a player was allowed to switch but was not entitled to do so?
There are plenty of examples of FIFA legal dept.refusing switich applications because the player was not entitled to switch, not because some association made a fuss objecting to the switch.
Either you present evidence to the contrary or go to the corner with your tinfoil hat.
And Dan Crowley, why do you think his application was refused?
But, but geysir old chap I'm only going by what you said here, about y'know, Luxembourg and their objectionQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
How about presenting some evidence that Callum Robinsons switch was a blind eye shady deal ?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
This is just all nonsense. What happened was Luxembourg did their own research and made FIFA investigate Ireland's nationality laws after it became clear Johnasson's mother wasn't born here and his passport application was recent. Ryan had the right to Irish nationality at birth but his parents had to fill in a form which conflicts with a single line in FIFA's rules that will no longer apply and was never meant for this reason in the first place. It was put in place to stop naturalised citizens being scouted like rugby does. They're removing that now because they're not bothered any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Robinson isn't the first granny rule English player to get through the foreign birth register loophole because it's a quirk of our nationality law that FIFA were 100% unaware of and England didn't care. It was against the spirit of the rule anyway. Luxembourg kicked up a fuss because they were annoyed and found the loophole. Crowley and any subsequent applications were going to have the same rules applied
I think "we" should try to get that Alex McCarthy fellow, if the new rules are confirmed. the guy is eligible it seems, played only in a friendly,and he is a super modern keeper.
Pretty sure he's not eligible, unless you have evidence to the contrary?
This article seems to indicate he was/is eligible for us, but no clue on credibility:Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
https://www.extratime.com/articles/1...hoose-ireland/