Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by The Fly

Agreed, at present it will make no discernible difference to supporter numbers. That will only be seen in the long-term, with future generations.

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Fly, I completely agree with you. One of my frustrations is that if Nationalists are to feel that NI could possibly be an option for them in the future, the work has to start now. You commented before that I am naive and you could certainly be right, but I believe that National Sporting Organisations should try to build bridges between communities and should be proactive and transparent in doing this. Leadership is also needed, and NB, this is why I have shown such an interest in the NI team as I feel much more could be done now.

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Originally Posted by gastric

Leadership is also needed, and NB, this is why I have shown such an interest in the NI team as I feel much more could be done now.

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Like what?

If you give me specifics, at least I can raise them.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Ignoring the morality of it, of what rule would it have fallen foul though?

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geysir's credability really has taken a battering over the past 24 hours...go easy on him.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Therein lies the thrust of the rumblings I'm hearing - couched with cries of "equality".

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Ah, I think I get you now. So some deluded bright spark in the IFA seeks FIFA not to apply their 2007 proposal, but to deem Irish nationality a shared nationality so that article 6 would then apply in respect of it, thus effectively granting the IFA unique and special treatment? That'd be downright bizarre (not to mention diplomatically contentious) considering FIFA have never proposed anything of the sort. Who thought of this masterplan? Same guy who thought going to CAS over Kearns was a good idea?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Ah, I think I get you now. So some deluded bright spark in the IFA seeks FIFA not to apply their 2007 proposal, but to deem Irish nationality a shared nationality so that article 6 would then apply in respect of it, thus effectively granting the IFA unique and special treatment? That'd be downright bizarre (not to mention diplomatically contentious) considering FIFA have never proposed anything of the sort. Who thought of this masterplan? Same guy who thought going to CAS over Kearns was a good idea?

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Not sure where the idea came from.

But, at face value, it's a lot more joined up than what has gone before.

A test on Article 6.

Ultimately, very dangerous for the IFA.

I'd like to see the IFA approach them with whatever sort of proposal they think FIFA initially suggested or possibly with a brand new proposal. They'd be made laughing stocks of.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Not sure where the idea came from.

But, at face value, it's a lot more joined up than what has gone before.

A test on Article 6.

Ultimately, very dangerous.

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It's an interesting tack but I'm not sure how one would go about convincing FIFA (or anyone for that matter) that Irish nationality is or should be a shared nationality. It's not, nor can it be, considering it is dispensed by the Irish state and not the British state. That's pretty straightforward, isn't it?

Why do you say it's dangerous exactly? Dangerous for the IFA as in potentially self-destructive or something?

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Not sure where the idea came from.

But, at face value, it's a lot more joined up than what has gone before.

A test on Article 6.

Ultimately, very dangerous.

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But it's not joined up at all? There are 2 different ways of looking at it, and both are massively flawed.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

I'd like to see the IFA approach them with whatever sort of proposal they think FIFA initially suggested or possibly with a brand new proposal. They'd be made laughing stocks of.

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Why's that Joe?

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

But it's not joined up at all? There are 2 different ways of looking at it, and both are massively flawed.

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Yeah - that's why I think it would be a dangerous stategy.

If the IFA 'screw up' in the way suggested, then surely it would be more by accident than design.

Unless they've taken a certain person on as a consultant, wouldn't credit them with having the intellectual means to do so...

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

It would certainly raise some eyebrows from afar in that regard.

A one team situation is off the agenda now, given that the current rules allow anyone born in Northern Ireland to have a choice.

That right of choice must be upheld.

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I don't think you would have go too afar for the raised eyebrows, not a step further than the core support I'd imagine.

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Originally Posted by gastric

Fly, I completely agree with you. One of my frustrations is that if Nationalists are to feel that NI could possibly be an option for them in the future, the work has to start now.

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Agreed. Although many do at present anyway, and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. I couldn't tell you exactly how many are in the current senior squad, but I'm sure NB would know.

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Originally Posted by gastric

You commented before that I am naive and you could certainly be right, but I believe that National Sporting Organisations should try to build bridges between communities and should be proactive and transparent in doing this. Leadership is also needed, and NB, this is why I have shown such an interest in the NI team as I feel much more could be done now.

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A little naive perhaps regarding NI matters. I wouldn't worry about it though - ignorance can be bliss on that count.

Your point pertaining to the overall aim of any sporting organisation is correct, but by the same token they are not public bodies. Of course the IFA should institute that final change regarding the flag and anthem, I think every rational person can agree with that. But the benefits of such a change, as I stated earlier, will only be seen in the long term, and even then this issue will still apply.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Why's that Joe?

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Well they are either
A) Going back to the initial offer by FIFA, to have everyone born on Ireland eligible for NI. This was approved by FAI, so we have to assume necessary provisions would be put in place RE article 6. This would be pointless now for the same reason it was then.

B)
The IFA go to FIFA with their own 'island of ireland' idea, thus impacting article 6 and bringing about what you've alluded to. Why would FIFA ever agree to this and what reasons would the IFA even suggest it?

The IFA already attempted to argue to CAS that Irish nationality was a shared nationality but failed to establish a sufficient factual or legal basis for their argument (see paragraph 79 of Kearns). Why do they think they might be able to argue it more convincingly now? :confused:

I'm baffled. It's simply not possible. It doesn't make sense; it defies not just the notion of national sovereignty, but also logic. That's why it took me so long to actually comprehend exactly what NB was talking about. It's difficult to comprehend such anti-logic (not on your part, NB). But not only that, if the IFA were to somehow convince FIFA to regard Irish nationality as a shared nationality, it would spark uproar within the nationalist community. Does someone at the IFA think this would be a good way of encouraging nationalists to take an interest in NI/the IFA? After how dragging Kearns to CAS made them look? ****ing hell...

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I'm baffled. It's simply not possible. It doesn't make sense; it defies not just the notion of national sovereignty, but also logic.

It's difficult to comprehend such anti-logic.

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You have to enter here first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Pa-palm... I'm pretty sure someone has earned it... :)

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/me..._face_palm.jpg

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Ignoring the morality of it, of what rule would it have fallen foul though?

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The anti-discrimination is in the statutes under Article 3
“Discrimination of any kind against a country, private person or group of people on account of ethnic origin, gender, language, religion, politics or any other reason is strictly prohibited and punishable by suspension or expulsion.”

FIFA's goal is to abolish all form of discrimination in football. There is little doubt that an Association bringing in a racial quota would incur sanctions. But I presume the questionable deed (racial quotas) would have to be done. The French Federation were possibly just at a proposal stage by the time it leaked out into the public. Perhaps some inside the FFF thought that an association could whatever they wanted in their selection policy for weeding out a proportion of kids who were more likely to be disloyal.
Are there not claims that the IFA ignored the merits of some Derry kids? That's a hard one to prove concretely and then you face counter charges of being a mope. Probably you have to add IFA incompetence into it as well. It's difficult to escape the incompetence factor. When you have IFA incompetence combined with a IFA selection policy in an area with a past history of discrimination with a proportion of it institutionalised, it's quite rational to ponder about the IFA's ability to get itself into another mess.

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Originally Posted by The Fly

Agreed. Although many do at present anyway, and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. I couldn't tell you exactly how many are in the current senior squad, but I'm sure NB would know.

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I don't know how many Nationalists are in the squad.

Bwagner offered a figure of how many Catholics are in the squad though in post #3628.

Not sure how he/she knows that.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The anti-discrimination is in the statutes under Article 3
“Discrimination of any kind against a country, private person or group of people on account of ethnic origin, gender, language, religion, politics or any other reason is strictly prohibited and punishable by suspension or expulsion.”

FIFA's goal is to abolish all form of discrimination in football. There is little doubt that an Association bringing in a racial quota would incur sanctions. But I presume the questionable deed (racial quotas) would have to be done. The French Federation were possibly just at a proposal stage by the time it leaked out into the public. Perhaps some inside the FFF thought that an association could whatever they wanted in their selection policy for weeding out a proportion of kids who were more likely to be disloyal.
Are there not claims that the IFA ignored the merits of some Derry kids? That's a hard one to prove concretely and then you face counter charges of being a mope. Probably you have to add IFA incompetence into it as well. It's difficult to escape the incompetence factor. When you have IFA incompetence combined with a IFA selection policy in an area with a past history of discrimination with a proportion of it institutionalised, it's quite rational to ponder about the IFA's ability to get itself into another mess.

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There isn't "discrimination of any kind" in NB's proposal for the Northern Ireland FA. It's a pointless exercise but not discriminatory in its nature.