I don't believe soQuote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
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I don't believe soQuote:
Originally Posted by Philosophizer
I don't see why not. At least until somewhere else can credibly claim the title. I don't think Lansdowne can, as would be strange to claim that the home of Irish football is a rugby stadium that the game only has an agreement to use for a fixed number of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
Irish football has plenty of scope for growth, and clear signs that it is slowly but surely starting to experience it. As pointed out by others, the crowds at Dalymount have been limited by capacity constraints. And then here's the uplift in numbers gained purely from a new stadium. So if Rovers can justify a 10,000 capacity stadium I see no reason why Bohs can't too. On current numbers I'd fully expect their average to definitely be above 5,000 in a new Dalymount. And by the time it's built that figure will probably be higher again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
BTW - if a club was averagng crowds of 10,000 (which you say Bohs are a long way from achieving), then a 10,000 capacity stadium would clearly too small for them. You don't build a house for the size of family you have now, but for the size you expect you'll need in future. I'd say a 10,000 stadium would be ideal for a club averaging around 7,500-8,000 crowds - as it would provide room for bigger gates when needed. I can honestly see Bohs growing to that kind of level over the next 10-15yrs, especially with the bounce of a new stadium and if they continue the work they're doing in the community and to create a strong brand for themselves. Not to mention the likely large population growth in North Dublin.
I think your average crowd number is a bit low, however you have to remember the size of the crowds at Dalymount are restricted by most of it being unusable. By all accounts the demand for tickets is always higher to what can be supplied. I would hate to think a new Dalymount holding 7.5k-8k would still leave people without tickets. Build a 10k seater stadium and IF only 8k turn up that's fine but we all know the club support is growing and the larger stadium will future proof the supply and demand for sometime. Imagine 5 or 6 years down the line jumping through hoops to get planning and finance to expand, it won't happen!Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
My average went by their average crowds for the last few years and you're right about that the fact only 1 stand and 1 end being used in Dalymount severely restricts capacity, but when is the last time a LOI game came close to selling over 8k tickets. Maybe the Bohs Vs Shams games, games in europe or a friendly against a big UK/European side may do so, but as I said 90% of the time a 10k stadium will be lucky to be more than 35-40% full in the LOIQuote:
Originally Posted by Shinkicker
Seems like the biggest issue for any expansion/higher capacity is access and egress due to the size of the site. We have an awful long way to go before 8k isn't enough. Modern health and safety standards and the shrinking site due to the historic sale of the Phibsboro Shopping Centre End dictate that. If we ever get to the point of needing further expansion maybe something will be figured out but would seem unlikely to pass any kind of cost/benefit analysis (would you have to buy sections of land from residents gardens?). Think the club have pushed this to it's limit and we're probably getting more than we could reasonably expect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neish
Hmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
I imagine the good folk at Cliftonville FC might have something to say in that regard. Or, if you're speaking less literally/more figuratively, then Belfast surely holds the title, no?
Though Dalymount is certainly the home of football in Dublin, or Republic of Ireland if you prefer.
HTH
I saw somewhere that the new stands in Dalymount were limited to 9 meters height on purpose to remove the possibility of objections. The South Stand in Tallaght is 14 meters high with good viewing angles and was completed for €2m.
South Stand Tallaght Stadium
Its mad that the new Dalymount will cost €40m for 2 debatably inferior stands. (I know one of them will have corporate glass so that increases the cost) DCC seemed intent on the rotating pitch option.
Would have loved to see a big 4000+ seater stand opposite the Jodi and new Des Kelly terrace . Jodi could have been for away fans.
It's crazy, the Connaught St terrace and the Jodi had to be more than 9mtrs high and those heights should still be permissible. Who was the SC end sold to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
That's a bit like saying famine cottages are the home of the Irish people.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Pretty much nobody under 40 will have ever seen Ireland play a game in Dalyer. Times move on. The home of Irish football is a rugby ground now.
It does seem a very high price alright but I'm a bit lost with the price of everything at the moment. I don't really know what the breakdown of that cost is (even roughly). Don't know if it includes demolition cost, does it include the money already spent on the process (probably?). Can't really debate about inferior stands yet because we still haven't seen that much detail really so there's not a lot of comparison to be made. It was mentioned that the height would be around the same as the Jodi Stand, maybe slightly higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buller
Tallaght has tall all-seater stands and decent sized gaps in and around the corner flags, with a final capacity above 10k. Dalymount is currently envisioned to have a mix of terracing and seating with a final capacity of circa 8k and looks like they'll try to fill every gap with some kind of accommodation, even if very small. Dalymount is an urban development boxed in by schools, houses and shops. Tallaght is a greenfield, more suburban site. They're just very different developments really. I didn't hear any mention of safe standing type accommodation in either of the pitchside stands but they'd be better off trying to get something like that in, particularly if the culture of standing towards the corner blocks of the main stand remains. The terraces behind the goal are too small to create that kind of visual effect the corner in the Jodi has.
The first time or the second time? Fairly sure it was the owners of the shopping centre who ended up with it, but open to correction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkicker
The proposed development looks good. 8,000 is reasonable I think. While there's great momentum behind the league at the moment, you'd probably get much better odds that it's a short term anomaly rather than a long term trend. If Bohs are filling 8,000 every week they'll probably have the funds then to either relocate or expand the development somehow. It would be a great problem to have.
If Bohs relocated the residents will be getting looked upon by the folk in the new apartments. Then they'd would want the ground to stay. I personally would love to see Bohs stay where they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Just build it strong and allow history to repeat itself. Get a ladder for Rocketman.
Problem solved.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWs4SPUU...pg&name=medium
https://www.independent.ie/incoming/...060/186024.jpg
Eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The point I was making was that "Irish football" encompasses more than just the 26 counties.
Football in Ireland (island) started officially in 1880, in Belfast, making claims for anywhere in Dublin to be "The Home of Irish Football" quite simply wrong.
"IFA - Original & Best" :good:
Remember seeing that picture before. what year was that took?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
Think that picture is way older before H&S was in force!Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Well, ok; that's fair. Though given the country is called Ireland, it's hardly incorrect to use the adjective "Irish".Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
And Dalymount still isn't the home of anyone other than Bohs these days.
The photo (1973) is from famous the 3-0 ( Brady’s debut) win over the USSR- and yes I’m one of the over 40s that was there…. As time goes by I’m starting to feel like the Woody Allen character ZeligQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Halloween night, watching the highlights with Jimmy Magee on commentary, some performance a 3 nil against the Soviet Union. How far we have gone backwards in senior International soccer since.
Maybe, but how would you react is eg teams from NI routinely referred to themselves simply as "Irish"?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Remember that southern international teams (for want of a better term) do not represent the state which chooses to call itself "Ireland". Rather they represent the FAI, under which it is required by FIFA to call its representative teams "Republic of Ireland".
By the same token, teams representing the IFA are called "Northern Ireland" (though technically I believe the IFA could still use the name "Ireland" in matches which are not also open to FAI teams - World Cup, Euro's etc - effectively friendlies, also the British Championship as was).
And why do I make this point? Aside from a general concern for accuracy*, it is because I resent the implication in their use of "Ireland" over "Republic of Ireland" that FAI teams are somehow the "real" Ireland, with NI being relegated to some sort of idiosyncratic appendage.
And maybe it's also because when I first went to internationals in Belfast (l971 onwards), we fans routinely sung and chanted for "Ireland", while FAI teams were routinely referred to as "Eire", in both parts of Ireland and beyond. While the fact of the IFA subsequently choosing to call its teams "Northern Ireland" from the 1980's onwards was a courtesy and respect to its neighbours which is not currently being reciprocated.
Above all, we in NI have at least as proud a place in the story of Irish football, and a hell of a sight older one, as our neighbours, such that if anywhere should be entitled to call itself the "Home of Irish Football", that place should undoubtedly be in Belfast/NI and nowhere else.
Rant over.
* - Some might call it pedantry :)
Dalymount Park was part of that version of Ireland too. Opened in 1901 and extremely proud to have won the IFA Cup, the Belfast teams were generally stronger and a tough nut to crack. Getting into dodgy territory if you insist the stadium can't refer to being Irish, whatever about being the "home" of it.
I'm not saying large parts of your reply aren't without credit and aren't interesting to read but I shouldn't be able to object to anybody from this Island referring to themselves as also being Irish if they wish, no matter what their politics are. I don't think many would have an issue with that and if they did they'd have to have a long look at themselves. Some might have an issue with somebody referring to themselves as both British and Irish, I can't deny that, but they'd be intolerant (or probably just ignorant) too, and they'd be wrong imo. That's an identity that exists and that doesn't get acknowledged enough down here. What has this got to do with future stadium developments anyway?
This is one of the most ignorant takes I've ever read. How do you think Irish people feel about northerners appropriating the adjective describing our ethnicity that would be entirely uncomplicated if their ancestors hadn't been planted on the island on lands seized by force creating centuries of ethnic tensions that lead to partition of the island, a civil rights crisis, and decades of simmering civil war? But, hey, they've been using that term for their football team for decades now: it's all settled, lads.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Actually the FAI does represent the country called Ireland. FIFA don't make countries. They just settle disputes. There's no such country as the Republic of Ireland (which is just a descriptor term, like the Kingdom of Belgium)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
So yes, the FAI does represent the country called Ireland - even so far as being told by FIFA it had jurisdiction over the 26 counties - and the IFA is the rump. Not liking it doesn't make it false or inaccurate.
Views from 1970s Northern Ireland are generally best left in the 70s tbh. The North was routinely referred to in 60s Irish media as "The Six Counties FA". But we've moved on
Windsor is part of the almost uniquely complicated history of Irish football. But it's not the home of Irish football, and nor is Dalyer. And nor is the Belgrade stadium the home of Croatian football any more
Spot on there StuQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The whole “home of Irish football” thing about Dalymount is a throwaway nickname that (mainly) Bohs fans seem to want to keep alive when, as mentioned, it hasn’t been a reality for decades. “The home of (insert any country) football” is the place where their national Cup Final is hosted and also in most cases where their national team play.Quote:
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland declares that the name of the state is Ireland; Section 2 of the Republic of Ireland act 1948 declares that Republic of Ireland is "the description of the State".
For what it’s worth Oriel Park I believe has signage on the front entrance to their main stand that says “The Home of Football” which if anything is just hilarious. Moral of the story is it’s probably best not to get too precious over fans painting their clubs’ home in a positive light and probably just have a laugh at it
I've always considered the Dalymount "home of irish football" to be a joke on Bohs that they dont appear to get, bit like the comments in the Press about Rovers being "cup specialists" pre our win in 2019 for the first time in 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
That being said i was at matches in Dalymount but even then i always felt like it summed up footballs place in IReland that we had to play in a dive.
Thankfully times have changed
I've always wondered about that actually, what were they smoking up in Dundalk when they slapped "Home of Irish Football" up on Oriel Park!!
Of course DP has a history, and a proud one too. But my simple point is that referring to somewhere as "The home of..." implies that that is where it all started.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
And the simple, undeniable fact is that Football in Ireland all started in Belfast, over 2 decades before eg Dalymount even existed.
It isn't the "Irish" I'm objecting to - how could I? - rather it's the "home" bit, whether spiritual or physical.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
There is sometimes the view expressed that the new Dalymount might or should be bigger/better etc, on the basis that it is the "Home of Irish Football."Quote:
Originally Posted by bohsmug
And while that shouldn't matter a great deal in the grand scheme of things, as someone who is interested in the whole history of the game, it irks me - probably more than it should :)
The Ireland 3 USSR 0 game was 1974 (not '73).
I was at that game, and there was no question at the time that Dalymount was the 'home' of Irish football. I have to say, I still think that's true, though I can obviously see that if you don't remember that era (almost fifty years ago) then you might feel different about it. 'Original', home might be more appropriate. Up until the mid 70s. every international and every Cup Final was played there. (Let's leave Northern Ireland out of this; I see we've already had one predictably sectarian response along nakedly tribal lines).
Shouldn't you be posting on (ahem) a Gaelic football forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.
And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.
Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere.... :rolleyes:
Of course FIFA don't "make" countries - that is my whole point! For if it did, places like Faroes, Kosovo, Gibraltar, Macau, England(!) etc wouldn't have international football teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Instead, as the Federation of International Football Associations, it recognises and represents Football Associations and their representative teams in international competition. Which is why there are two international football teams in Ireland, one representing the IFA and required to be called "Northern Ireland", and the other representing the FAI and required to be called "Republic of Ireland".
And if anyone wants to know where this all happened first, it was in Belfast, in 1880, with the IFA - making Belfast the indisputable "home" (birthplace) of football in Ireland.
What do you mean by "60's Irish media"? The Irish Independent or Cork Examiner? The Daily Mirror, perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Do media like eg The Belfast Telegraph, or the Belfast Newsletter (coincidentally the oldest continuously published newspaper in the world) not count as "Irish" too? For I certainly don't ever recall them ever referring to "The Six Counties FA", a term which is so ignorant as to be laughable.
Fact is, you cannot simply write Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland, no matter how inconvenient or irritating its existence is, especially when it comes to matters football.
Meanwhile, if people want to discuss political matters like what the State whose capital city is in Dublin chooses to call itself, then count me out - I'm only here for the football.
Yes, the FAI team is required to be called the "Republic of Ireland", but it can't represent the Republic of Ireland as there's no such country. It's a term used nowhere else but in football to the best of my knowledge. The FAI absolutely does represent the country called "Ireland", and we know this because FIFA explicitly admitted the FAI on the basis that it only organised football in the 26 counties. The IFA does not, any more, represent the country called Ireland, despite what its fans may think about a competition that hasn't been run in nearly 40 years. It represents the country called Northern Ireland (which, like England, is a country - it's just happens to be, strangely, a country within a country) and has a mandate to organise football only within the six counties.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The state whose capital city is in Dublin is called Ireland. That's literally a statement of fact enshrined in the Constitution. I'm not sure (and indeed don't really care) what discussion there is to be had there.
I'm clearly not writing Northern Ireland out of its place in the history of Ireland - I am, however, stating that neither Belfast nor Windsor Park nor Dalymount Park are the home of Irish football.
Once again, that's my whole point! The team does not represent the State, however it calls itself, rather it represents the Football Association of Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Otherwise, how do you account for the fact that the UN has 193 independent Member States, while FIFA has 211 Member Associations?
No matter how much you dislike or deny it, the FAI and "Ireland" (if you insist) are simply not coterminous.
No, the state whose capital city is Dublin calls itself Ireland and if that's what you prefer, go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I could call myself King of Ireland, though it wouldn't make me so. But however you argue the political case, when it comes to football, the international team which plays its games in Dublin is called "Republic of Ireland" - it's all in here: www.fifa.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Funny, there's 380 pages on the stadium updates thread, and we're fittingly back talking about 1880, the formation of football in Ireland, and the breakaway of the FAI from the IFA, which coincidentally was the last time anything was actually built for football here..
Way back the term Republic of Ireland was used on an extradition order for I think it was Dessie Ellis…. His barrister launched a successful challenge based on the description being used (ROI) rather than the correct legal name Ireland and was successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
So in the ‘real world’ the title ROI is a useful way for distinguishing between Ireland and Northern Ireland …. So split hairs all you wish but for me and most others it will continue to be used as a term of clarity so it makes sense as I say in the ‘real world’
'Ireland' to has two meanings, so isn't ideal. 'The North' and 'the South' work grand for people who need to differiate on a daily basis, like the ones in our office. Either way, 'home of Irish football' is meaningless. There isn't one, but it's a useful ploy for Bohs to try and get an extra few quid in funding.
Dragging this back on topic, no word on the options appraisal that the council are carrying out on the Brandywell pitch, but some interesting figures on it.
The plastic pitch is bringing in £80k per annum, the grass one brought in £11k.
The pitch is due its next FIFA cert inspection in July.
The pitch has a 10 year warranty, based on 50 hours usage per week. Usage is currently 35-40 hours. The pitch was scheduled for replacement after eight years though (2026). A grass pitch can be used six hours per week.
A full rebuild of the grass pitch would take 6-12 months to bed in, would cost £600-800k. Another plastic pitch would be over £1m, a hybrid pitch (Lansdowne and Windsor have these, maybe Croke as well?) would cost about the same.
Whatever option is picked, it'll involve moving out tenants. Institute may be getting relegated this season, so maybe makes it easier to move them to another ground in the town for a while? Derry would have the option of Maginn Park again, but there would be very little appetite for that, and you'd be cancelling about 2/3s of STs.
Is that supposed to be some sort of sectarian taunt? Those aren't welcome here.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
It would seem you have no idea what ethnicity means. There are dictionaries online, if you have the wit to use one. Thinking that those three aren't ethnically Irish makes you a racist, by the way. At best.Quote:
Anyhow, being "Irish" is absolutely nothing to do with "Ethnicity", as I'm sure eg Leo Varadkar, Paul McGrath or Phil Lynott would agree.
Good for you.Quote:
And I'm Irish because I was brought up in Ireland, as were all my parents, grandparents and great grandparents (and who knows how many generations further back?), from places as far apart as Antrim, Fermanagh, Leitrim and Tipperary.
Purple monkey dishwasher to you too.Quote:
Anyhow Mr. Biden, Air Force One is waiting on the tarmac and you're needed elsewhere.... :rolleyes:
https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/fi...ed-quickly.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Yes it does - it was explicitly admitted to FIFA on the basis that it organised football in the 26 counties. That's the country we call Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
**** me, this is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever, ever seen. Are you saying that the State is wrong in the name it calls itself?! Despite it being literally in the Constitution? And despite Republic of Ireland being a term that has pretty much no legal standing other than as a descriptor term?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
If that's so, then Ignore List gets activated and I'm out.