Three clean sheets in his last four games now.
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Three clean sheets in his last four games now.
And under some of the most immense pressure the game can offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix
Meanwhile in other news Kelleher has hurt himself doing nothing again, Pineapple, did you see ?
Yep, Kelleher's injury record is rivalling Ryan Giggs' at this stage unfortunately. You can tell there's an international break coming up.
Good game today. Best I’ve seen him with Southampton. Two excellent saves and confident throughout
Getting a clean sheet in Old Trafford is a big boost to the lad. Great for him.
You'd think that Liverpool would actually want the chance of him playing a game ! ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Does Kelleher have a strained ar$e cheek from sitting on bench. It's a long grueling season
Are you saying Kelleher doesn't love the Eire sufficiently ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Is that where we are now at ?
Great to see Bazunu finding a bit of form.
Sad to see Kelleher injured again. How does he keep getting injured as a back up keeper with some of the best medical staff and coaches in world football around him? How is he going to handle playing regularly?
Bazunu is back as my #1 choice regardless but it would have been nice to have Kelleher as an option and maybe have another look for a half against Latvia. As it stands Bazunu should play every minute of both games.
In fairness, Kelleher has only missed two camps - March 2021 (the one where Bazunu got his place first), and September 2022. Bazunu has also missed two (March 2022 and June 2022), Bazunu missing 6 games compared to Kelleher's 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Really? Feels like more. I guess I'm adding in the Cup games he's missed with Liverpool. They take on extra significance when it's all he gets. Fairly sure he's had some injuries around then anyway.
(The Ryan Giggs comparison was a bit unfair on my part! Wasn't it Liverpool or Man Utd in the past (80s maybe) who'd have their Irish players injured for international breaks where possible, and back in league action at the weekend? Or am I gone totally mad?)
Bazunu cements his place as our number one. He's recovered well from a few patchy moments at his club. Even without Kellehers injury, I think there wasn't much question about who'd be starting for us. Not sure why there was so much chatter about it.
bazunu was touch and go to be no1 according to posters here on friday now after his first very good game in weeks hes a cert. do people realise how ridiculous all of this sounds?
there were only one or two posters that legitimately thought he was touch and go.
And I suppose Boomers, who says he's a cert, has never been one to not have faith in his own opinion, so not entirely a fair comparison.
But I think there is a point there though - he's had two very good games lately (Chelsea and Man Utd) and he'll get hyped up, but in the other games in his last four, he's made three very bad errors, one of which did cost his side a goal and the other two of which arguably should have, and they've been quietly forgotten.
There's confirmation bias on both sides of course. Both sides - and I've said before that I don't recall a divide like Kelleher/Bazunu before really - will see what suits their argument and run with it*. The reality is in the middle somewhere; one swallow doesn't make a summer and so on.
Hopefully the very good games start becoming more numerous though.
* - I saw someone over in the Shelbyville that is YBIG post a table that claimed he was statistically the third best keeper in the league earlier in the season, and wouldn't back down from that view even when it was pointed out the table was sorted in alphabetical order!
Look Stu. I'm not arguing with you or anyone else on this site. I'm just explaining why I'm right.
I'm kind of proud of the fact that i have only ever visited YBIG once or twice and that was years ago now at this stage. Enough to turn me off completely. This is far and away the best forum for discussion...Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
But i digress... the only point i was making was to Jd's post which seemed to suggest that there was a groundswell against GB before the weekend among this group and it just isnt the case. There are only one or two that suggested he would be second to CK at this point. I'll go back to one of your earlier points, neither one are in an ideal situation - but - the jersey belongs to GB and it would take a big change in circumstances for CK in order for him to dislodge him based on all of the evidence before us (I recognize you don't agree with that).
Put the two of them together and you get (a) GoalKeeper.
I think JD was referring to stu actually. But stu used it to suit his argument.
There was maybe more people thinking that it wasn't completely open and shut than in recent months, which certainly isn't a groundswell against him alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
YBIG kind of feels like the English Premier League fans' Ireland forum. It split from here back in the day, didn't it? First item on any Irish organisation's agenda - the split...
Hadn't thought of it like this before but that's bang on. The posters there mostly just believe whatever they want to be true. Just like how fanatical Liverpool/United do when you talk to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Anyways, just saw the highlights of the game at the weekend. The first time I can remember this season of him looking like the player we know from Ireland games. There has been some luck involved but hopefully the recent clean sheets will give him confidence and the whole team can kick on. The bottom of the epl table is so close that a decent run of form could see them 12th.
I don't think it's ridiculous Jd. We have two keepers who have always been close in most people's eyes. One is playing but making mistakes we probably can't afford to make against France and the other has been fairly reliable when called upon for club and country even if he isn't playing enough. If they were two strikers it wouldn't sound ridiculous to discuss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Bazunu isn't undroppable as much as I like him. I've always favoured him over Kelleher but at the same time I could understand why people thought Kelleher, on the bench in the EPL, was a better choice than Bazunu, playing in L1.
I doubt Kenny was ever considering switching to be fair but if nobody was looking at Gavin's form and thinking it might be a risk I'd be surprised. He probably would have been dropped for McCarthy if McCarthy wasn't injured earlier in the season.
Delighted he's turned that form around in recent weeks. It wasn't just the United game. He's still had a few errors but generally seems much better under Selles. 1 goal conceded in 4 league games is the sort of form that will have Southampton climbing out of the pit.
Bazunu is our only credible starting option currently. That hasn’t changed over the past 4 months.
It's amazing how Bazunu has suddenly become good in some people eyes in recent games. I don't mean anyone on here, its the Twitter idiots I'm talking about.
The supposed uptick in Bazunus form has happened since they changed the manager. Seems to me that he is now playing behind a half decent team compared to earlier in season so he's no longer getting the blame for their defense being sh1te. Also a reason why the goalkeeper stats for him being worst in league are pointless. A goalkeeper is only as good as what's in front of him for the most part. Yes he can play a big part but if the red sea is being parted in front of him every week, there fcuk all he call do.
I've stood on this point from the outset, he's an outstanding keeper, especially given his age, and the fact that he's even in Premiership at this age shows his talent. I think he'll be in a Champions League team in the not too distant future.
Kelleher seems like a good keeper, but I think it could be overstated given that he plays for Liverpool and they have massive support in Ireland. We don't know, considering how little he plays.
Since the start of this season when one of the signed to become 1st choice keeper and the other decided to stay in his comfort zone there was never any decision to be made for me on who should be the Irish #1. I didn't agree with it, but I could understand the argument when Bazunu was only in L1.
At this point unless Bazunu completely falls of a cliff with his form there's shouldn't be any doubt about our goalkeeper choice until Kelleher proves he can be a club keeper
I put a lot of stock in how he kept Adrian off the bench for Liverpool - Adrian having had a very decent career of his own - but the longer he doesn't play, the less certain I am of him. He could be really excellent, or he may some day take the O'Hara route into obscurity. I think it's more likely to be close to the former route, but who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
That's a fair point, but it's also very different being able to focus week in week out as the main man.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I hope we find out soon
I think it's a bit unfair to say Kelleher is "deciding to stay in his comfort zone". He's at one of the best clubs in the world and got to play some key games. Staying at Arsenal until 28(?), barely used, didn't do Emi Martinez any harm.
Of course Kelleher has to take the plunge sometime and I reckon now is about the right time to do it.
To be fair, Martinez had six different loan moves during his time at Arsenal, and had 102 senior appearances behind him before he joined Aston Villa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Dear god Southampton are terrible at the back,Spurs right back had a good 15/20 yards of space to whack in a goal there,absolutely no chance for the keeper….
Southampton are going down for sure, absolutely played off the park against Crystal Palace today.
Wasn't great for the opener either; didn't get enough distance on the parry and went to ground doing so, leaving a huge target. The defence was asleep as well, which didn't help things. Two shots on target and two goals; not the first time he's had that stat.
A year in the Championship won't be the end of the world at his age anyway.
Not sure what to think about his time at Southampton. Is it a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level? Possibly but I still think it was probably just the wrong move. As much as I've been in favour of him playing as many games as possible, he's also sacrificed the kind of coaching and development Kelleher got by staying at Liverpool. I've argued the opposite before but as with most things, there are grey areas. Would Bazunu have been better off going back to City for a season as #2 or 3 and working with the best coaches and keepers than being thrown into that Southampton defence with a merry go round of coaches? I'd say his confidence is absolutely shot at this stage. He's a strong lad but the constant managerial changes and the fans getting on his back can't be good.
As you say stu, a spell in the Championship might be for the best. It might have been a better step from League One in the first place. That's if Southampton keep him.
You sound like me not, otoh!Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
So I guess I should sound like you in this strange mirror-land. I don't think it's a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level. That's not to say he definitely will make it of course - Southampton previously spent €20m or so on Angus Gunn from Man City, he flopped quite badly, and five years later he's a solid Championship keeper.
But he's 21. Time is on his side.
Would he have been better off as Man City's #2 or 3? Would he have been Man City's #2 or 3? Backup keeper seems unlikely based on his performances this season; Man City would surely have wanted someone more ready for the Premier League? Third choice keeper is nothing. I still think he made the right move. But maybe leaving was the right move and Southampton were the wrong club, so if they were the only permanent option then maybe another loan or trying to make third choice at City were the right move after all. It's not black and white, as you say.
But I think it's good that there seems to be a more rounded view of him of late, one which doesn't pump him up as a world beater all the time but acknowledges he's making mistakes and has a lot to learn. Even on this thread there's posts which say he doesn't make the same mistake twice or that Southampton's poor defensive record is because of the defenders not the keeper (though xG stats, and I know I know, dispute that and say he's conceded about 15 more than an average keeper would have. It's a lot), and there's a marked difference in reaction when, say, Kelleher conceded two soft goals against Latvia (although I don't think he could have done much about the deflection) and when Bazunu conceded two soft goals against Armenia. I've said it before, but it's created a divide on here unlike any other two players I can remember and I don't know why.
He'll be grand if we take a more balanced view of things I think. Ditto Kelleher. Let them fight it out and we can get back to worrying about whether we'll have any wingbacks yet by the time Coleman hits 40.
(Also, I never realised Bazunu's mother was Irish. Same as Idah I think?)
I think anyone reading it would get a balanced view as most people are just putting up opposing arguments that are sensible enough. I think it's been pretty civil here and on the Kelleher thread (in contrast to the Kenny or Celtic/Irish youngsters threads for example). Everyone sees two promising keepers for the most part. I don't think I've ever put Bazunu up as a world beater. I've always said he has a long way to go. They both do. We don't have many coming through who are the complete article or at the peak of their powers. Cullen maybe as he's at the right age at least. Hopefully he has another level to get to though.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think you and I agree on way more than we disagree. Most of the hyperbole probably comes from our collective desperation for the national team to improve and the associated need for promising players to come in and set the world alight. I saw someone ask if Collins was better than McGrath on Twitter a few months back. At least foot.ie tends to be more reasonable than that.
We'll be fine at wingback. Lyons and Farrugia either side. Rovers to the rescue.......;)
I think it's been civil but definitely biased (on both sides). Certainly way different to the Celtic youngsters thread for sure. But the example I gave, of Kelleher being slated for the two goals against Latvia while little was said about Bazunu's two against Armenia, is definitely there. I think you've been more balanced in general, though I do recall you claiming earlier in the season that he'd had a few great performances when he hadn't had any stand-out games really. I tend to find the bias a bit frustrating. (Not just on this thread; I've given out about green-tinted observations on other threads as well. The Idah one in particular I think)
I think the desperation for good players to come through is definitely part of it alright. I think there's also an element that we all want to lay claim to being the first to call a player as a genuine international prospect, and when we do we pin our colours to that player. You can see it a lot in the earlier stages of a fair few threads. It leads to a bit of blindness.
foot certainly tends to be more reasonable than Twitter; not a high bar granted! I quite like it for that (as I'm sure most of us on here do). Some of the stuff on YBIG can be way over the top on the odd occasion I check, so we've got that going for us too. I think I mentioned before the guy who back in October or something put up a table which showed Bazunu was statistically ranked third best keeper in the Premier League, and wouldn't back down from that even when it was pointed out the list was ranked alphabetically.
Touch wood Kelleher gets a move in the summer though; then next season will be properly interesting.
Less than two years ago, you thought Bazunu would be third choice at Portsmouth. You are now hinting that Bazunu (21 years old, 14 senior caps, most minutes by an Irish player in the PL this season) is not “a genuine international prospect”? And in another thread, you lament the goals scored by a semi-pro footballer in a semi-pro division as a reflection on our current striking options.
Yeah, thanks for keeping it reasonable. I share the frustration.
You mean this one? (My boldface.) That would seem to be a fairly unreasonable twisting of his meaning. Not that anyone ever does that here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
According to a fella I met on the bus yesterday, there isn't a huge gap between the two keepers and they both have great potential. As a result, the narcissism of minor differences comes into play at this point and people end up taking more radical positions than they would normally intend.
Don't shoot the messenger, that's just what the man said.
Time will tell - maybe an obvious gap in ability will emerge between the two- I hope they both have great careers.
(Bazunu Ire #1 4evah :D )
Reading wouldn't be a strong point for you, would it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
This is not what I said. And John has clarified that other things you've said I said aren't what I said.
Who said what, or are people just saying said too much?