It's ridiculous to restart for only 13 games. Could hardly call it a season..
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It's ridiculous to restart for only 13 games. Could hardly call it a season..
Would be even more ridiculous to have 13 more games with no relegation but have promotion, as is being mentioned in the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
So back to 12 teams next year? Would that mean 3 straight down next year and 1 promoted to bring it back to 10?!
Why are some clubs against relegation ?
Well it’s fairly obvious really, if you look at Sligo for example, they have no points so it would be hard for them to avoid relegation if they only had 13/14 games left. It seems clear to me from listening to their treasurer that they are pushing for the short season to reduce costs and I would imagine they are pushing for no relegation aswell. If that’s what is decided then what incentive to they have to pay players in full and actually field a competitive team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
None it would be a shambles that would leave some clubs with no incentive to be competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
I was thinking there might be a football/sporting reason, but there isnt....
Its baiscally a way for some clubs to try and cull their wages which they already agreed to, to the detriment of the league
Dunno if anyone has the answer to this question, but what happens if 9 teams agree and 1 disagrees? Does the league say" tough €hit paddy, we're going ahead without you," to the one disenter or do we remain in limbo at the mercy of this one club?
Sorry meant to add,
What if it's 2 clubs, or 3. Where does this end I guess?
It's also a way of not spending a season in the First Division. Not unique to Ireland either - Hearts and Partick are already suing the Scottish League over their relegations after the Scottish leagues were abandoned with around 6-8 matches to go, while last week, the French courts blocked relegation from Ligue 1 while letting the two promoted sides come up, so there'll be 22 teams and four relegation spots next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
One of the many issues all this is really highlighting is the problems the difference in contract lengths causes as the season cant be extended because some clubs can't afford to extend contracts.
The FAI should step in and stop that in future. I know people say players want to go on the dole and stuff but when you're trying to promote a league it's really hard to convince people you're serious while also saying that.
There's nothing to stop players getting other work between seasons they just couldn't go on the dole is all.
Talk of the FAI Cup being scrapped should be shelved too. We need that euro spot. Play it after the seasons conclusion, simple. If clubs don't want to renew contracts then they can play the kids in it
plough on.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
We're a disgrace atm that we haven't got the league up and running.believe we're the only league in Europe not doing so.
So much for this new loi we got promised by fai. the NEW fai
In fairness, it's hard to blame this on the current FAI.
It's an exceptional and unique circumstance to hit what is an organisation badly hamstrung by the chief ****wit JD himself.
What can the FAI realistically do? They're broke, so can't really just finance all LoI clubs' costs for the season. But they have to comply with national health and safety requirements during a pandemic.
(OK, JD didn't make the current organisation as Dundalk for a loan if that story's true, but other than that, this isn't the current FAI's doing)
This is factually incorrect and is very easy to disprove.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
Ligue Un, Jupiler League, Erdeivisie, SPL, Leagues One and Two in England. All cancelled outright. So was the Womens Premier League in England.
NIFL hasn't returned yet, neither has the LOI. I'm sure there are plenty of other leagues still trying to find solutions, but I don't have time to google all 50+ leagues.. There are still trying to agree a deals to bring MLB back in the US, and while the NBA has a deal there has been rumours suggesting a significant population of players don't want to return.
We need to realise that restrictions around travel and crowds are going to be different in each country. Ireland has been pretty badly hit by Covid-19 in relation to other countries. if you sort by death per population and take out countries under 1 million then Ireland has the 9th worst death rate in the world, 12th if you count Andorra, St. Maarten and San Marino. Next you have to look at the financial realities.
The Premier League was always going to return, there was too much television money at stake for it not to, and they were close to finishing it anyway. Its probably more of a surprise that leagues in France, Belgium and Netherlands didn't return for similar reasons but the TV money there isn't as massive as in England.
There was a tweet a few months back decrying the lack of TV money in Ireland. I think we were the only league in all of UEFA with zero television money, or one of only a few and the leagues near the bottom were tiny leagues that we should not be in the same category as. No league in all of Europe relies on crowds to a greater extent that the League of Ireland. It makes up the bulk of all of our clubs income. If you bring back the LOI without crowds we will lose clubs. That is reality. I completely understand why those clubs near the top of the table are eager to return, winning trophies is fun and there is European prize money to compete for. I would love for the LOI to be back, but until there are financial guarantees then it is irresponsible to bring it back. Is it be worth playing a truncated season in 2020 if we lose 2 or 3 clubs in the process? Or should we wait until we can find a way to get fans back in our stadiums, even at reduced capacities and allow clubs to budget for that so that they can survive this new reality.
Then you have relegation. I will admit that I will have a biased position on this but I'm going to lay my thoughts out and anyone can feel free to counter them, as long as you realise your position may also be biased based on the situation your club is in. I'm not suggesting that we have no relegation. I would be very relieved if that did turn out to be the case as my club is in danger of relegation.
When we started the season we all understood what was required for relegation, and to win the title etc. Play 36 games in the Premier, each team home and away twice, over the course of that season you can have no real complaints about your final position. If you cut those games in half you will get more weirdness. Each lucky or unlucky result has much more of an impact, an injury or suspension is twice as important. Loan signings who were brought in under the assumption they would be available for the majority of games before the end of June are now gone. There may also be players who are at increased risk, or who have family members who have increased risk who choose not to play for the remainder of the season. No matter what happens, if we go ahead then this is going to be a very strange season
You can't exactly impose a shortened season on clubs in the middle, teams made preparations for a 36 game season, so you need to get consensus on what a new season eventually looks like. There will be teams who are more or less happy with the eventual agreement but you need some sort of agreement.
Agree and disagree there Nigel. I think the league needs to happen, even at only 13 games it would bring some closure and keep sponsors, season tickets holders, players happy to some degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
13 games is way to short and Id agree hardly a season in anybody's eyes. I think all teams are looking for is fairness and decent crack at a season.
Id agree with El-P on the relegation. It would be wierd without it. Personally I think a way out would be start again, I said it at the start and was shot down for it, but halving a season after it has barely starts when teams have made preparations for 36 games, then restarting it 6 months later just isint a fair playing field imo. 9 games home, 9 games away brings everbody back to level playing field. There can be no argument about relegation. promotion, euro spots as everybody goes into this the same. Not to mention the chance of court proceedings that Scottish teams are talking about.
Maybe Im biased and maybe a restart is unlikely. I suppose all I want, and most clubs Im sure, is to feel that they were allowed have a go and not feel hard done by at when its all over.
There is another reason I could think of, that's survival. Is the financial package good enough to survive without debt. Football clubs are no different than any other company in all this. Some companies have to take drastic decisions in all this or they might not be back in business. Im not saying this is the case far from it, just a potential reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
Leo has announced crowds of 500 allowed from 29th June
I thought he said 200 then 500 from 20th July ? either number is a help to getting the league back on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket
€70 million for Sports of which €40 million between FAI, GAA and IRFU and crowds of 500 possible from 31st July could be enough now to get a deal over the line and recommence the season.
€30M to gah, €8M to rugger and €2M to FAI( of which the white slave owners of the schoolboy section will expect €1M)
How is it not a level playing field to continue from where the season left off until each team has played each other home and away, for a total of 18 games?Quote:
Originally Posted by redobit
I'm glad i helped you get that off your shoulders el p.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
We're still shockingly bad and way too cautious in this country in relation to covid 19 imo.Some relief though offered by the govt tonight.
Hopefully we'll see a pathway now for getting football here back again and a full season with relegation and promotion and a full FAI cup programme to come.
Are we? That's a fairly big claim. The reduction in numbers entirely justifies it as far as I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
And things aren't going to magically go back to normal even at the end of next month when crowds of 500 are allowed. Social distancing is still going to be a thing. There's lots of ways that's going to impact LoI clubs - reduced gates, increased costs, reduced ancillary income (I mentioned programme sales as a possible hit earlier on). Without some sort of agreement on how clubs are going to pay wages while effectively most of their customers are banned, the league can't resume. And the disgrace isn't that the league isn't back yet (far from the only one in Europe, as El Pietro pointed out), but that the league has been so criminally underdeveloped during Delaney's tenure.
That's not the current FAI's fault, who are dealing with two unique situations on top of each other (insolvency being the other).
I don't think anyone is saying that we're the only European league that's not back playing, we're the only European summer-season league with no return date. Plus Moldova maybe?
IMO the measures taken by government so far have been necessary. They are making a balls of the hospitality guidelines though.
In most grounds, it would be easy to seat 500 spectators at a social distance even if the subs will probably be sitting in the stand instead of the dug-outs too. The problem will be at the turnstiles and toilets.
I really wouldn't like to be the person with the final decision on all this. Another wave of infections and you'd be public enemy number one.
Yeah that doesn’t make sense. I don’t mind if there’s relegation and a 18 game season and we get relegated once coming back for these 13 games doesn’t leave us in financial ruin. Getting through this year to be in the somewhat stable position we were at the start of this year going into next year is the most important thing going. If we’re in Division 1 so be it. We’ve been there before plenty of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
With the extra money coming into Fai and crowds allowed in from 1st August 500 and of August 5000 probably (subject to social distancing files at that time.....probably minimal) it's looking more sustainable.
No mention of whats happening up in NIFL at all now. Wonder will it go the way of Scotland and call it quits?
Red tape and bureaucracy in this country is hurting all aspects of life im not a bid surprised at how we have handled the crisis. The initial response was good but a dogs dinner had been made of the reopening.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
https://twitter.com/stevenbeacom5/st...592376320?s=21Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...reland-season/
Perth wants the results so far made null and void.
....if relegation is scrapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
If the league accept the contention that playing out 13 or 14 games is an unfair way to resolve relegation, then his argument is logical about the top end of the league
I wonder if dundalk had won in Tallaght how he would feel about it... embarrassing
His issue appears to be around the proposal to scrap relegation. As far as I am aware Vinny Perth has not raised any objections about continuing with the remaining 13/14 games if promotion/relegation is maintained.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
If the FAI turned around after 5 games in any season and said we have decided to cut the season in half no clubs would agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Clubs have planned for 36 games, not 18 games over two different stints with a 6 month gap in the middle.
Squads and management could look a lot different after the restart for some clubs.
4 clubs have been given a bit of a head start on training, which I do understand in fairness given their European games.
I doubt it will restart but when you add up all these different changes it seems like a fairly big change in my opinion. Starting again does allow all teams to know exactly where they are and what is required for the number of games set out, same as any proper season. It takes out any argument on promotion/ relegation, look at Scotland too where clubs and SPL could end up in courts over it.
This isn't "any" season though.
This is fairly unprecedented stuff, and precedent has to go out the window. What's even the focus here? It seems to be to get a 2020 season played as quickly and cost-effectively as possible, however, that works out, and hope we can go back to normal in 2021.
On that basis, letting the 5 games already played stand makes sense. It's not an ideal solution of course - but there is no ideal solution here.
Personally speaking I think the results to date should stand, I was always of that opinion. Its only 5 games.
The problem is if there is no relegation, will make a mockery of the matches for half the division, and that can't be allowed to happen.
Also think 13 more is too few to decide a league, and relegation, if it was in scope.
Same for everyone though which makes it fair enough. Dundalk
3 points behind with 13 games to go in the season has the makings of an exciting next couple e of months.
Sligo have 13 games to make up 4 points.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
That sounds like you agree with Vinny Perth on relegation
While I personally think this season should be three rounds, if it’s decided that we come back to play only the first and second round then so be it. Everyone will have played each other home and away so there is a symmetry to it. My issue would be no relegation. If it’s decided that the remaining 13/14 games are enough to decide the title then this should also be enough to decide relegation.
What I meant was if Sligo can't make up 4 points in 13 games they deserve to go down.
Based on what I saw when we played them I think they have enough about them t o do it
13 more games is just not enough to decide league winners, euro spots and relegation.
Even though it would mean DFC having two away trips and only one home v Rovers, I think I would prefer 22 more games, make it up to 3 rounds of 9 and retain the first 5 results.
Another option is 13 more regular league games, make it up to two rounds (18), then have a split top 5, bottom 5, 4 games in each, draw lots for who is H + A like they do in SPL, so in this case, it would be 17 more games, 13 + 4, total of 22.
For our own case, making up 3 points on Rovers wouldn't worry me too much if only 13 more, but its not fair on those at the bottom, as often its the case teams at the lower end get into better form mid-season.