Played a handfull of games in Scotland and was very good for Oldham in league 1 where he got plenty of goals and assists. Oldham fans loved him
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Played a handfull of games in Scotland and was very good for Oldham in league 1 where he got plenty of goals and assists. Oldham fans loved him
That probably covers 15% of the current squad to be fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Bit depressing reading some of these posts to be honest. What could be a decent discussion based on available evidence about a lads ability has just turned into the usual "LoI is ****e". I see people relying on one misplaced pass to cast a sweeping judgement not just on the player but on the LoI itself. Imagine Celtic had axed Larsson after he cost them the game with a mi**** pass on his debut. Players make mistakes all the time at every level. Pogba has about 6 per game but he's a WC winner.
LoI supporters have watched the lads who made the step up to the international team so they have a good idea of who can and can't. We've seen the likes of Coleman, Doherty, Stevens, Horgan, McClean, Fahey, Hoolahan and Doyle up close in the league. We could see the little edge they all had that gave them the chance to step up. We've been surprised by the likes of Graham Burke getting the call up as, although he's a lovely footballer, he doesn't have the extra athletic ability needed. There have been others who could have made it but didn't for whatever reason. Forrester springs to mind.
Byrne had the potential. He showed as much when he came on and changed the game against Bulgaria. Like it or not, games against Bulgaria are about our level at the moment so anyone who can do it against them is worth a place. At least at the time.
Then he got a bad dose of covid followed by a back injury. Never really looked the same for Rovers after that and then another bucket of ****e luck with a managerial change right after joining Apoel. Of course you could just say that was a bad decision. At the time it made at least some sense to join Mick.
Hope he finds a place to enjoy his football. He's still young enough to kick on but as I said, my worry when he went to Apoel was if the injury was worse than we knew. He had surgery soon after.
Brilliant post OTOH.
If i could just add that, for all those that like to ignorantly diminish the quality and role of the domestic league, it also represents the single greatest opportunity we have to improve our international fortunes and to forge our own path in doing so. The potential of the league as an asset is astronomical. But as long as the majority of our fans have the same. old-school mindset that the english system and recruitment of generational Irishmen is the best strategy for us, we will never progress. We will just continue to get less competitive.
Sorry, I thought I was on a forum for Irish football supporters..must have stumbled upon the wrong place.
Some of the nonsense on here is beyond pathetic.
Anyone who continues to call the LOI a Pub league should have any opinion on football instantly dismissed. You are aware of the amount of players who have come through the LOI and gone on to be great players for us right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
No one is saying that the LOI should consistently have players in the squad while playing in the league but as a feeder league for good young players it is improving all the time.
I forgot he had covid too actually.
Covid, the manager who signed him sacked, a back injury, and financial problems at his club - all in the space of 10 months. That's a serious run of bad luck by any definition.
It's interesting that people are taking criticism of Byrne as criticism of the League of Ireland as though he is somehow a representative or ambassador for the league. But he's just a player who played in it like many others.
I appreciate that one poster has called it a pub league, but aside from that I think it should be reasonable to take a view on Byrne's future Ireland prospects (poor imo) without that representing a comment either way on the league.
Otherwise it just turns into another Kenny situation where certain players or managers are defended beyond reason because any failure by them is seen as a failure of the domestic league, when they're not necessarily related at all.
Personally I don't think Stephen Kenny is a particularly exceptional manager. I also don't think Jack Byrne is a particularly exceptional player. I don't think either have a long term, successful future in the Ireland setup. For me, neither of those opinions represents a position regarding the League of Ireland.
The manager getting sacked isnt bad luck when you can see that the club goes through 3 managers a season. He chose to go there knowing that the most likely scenario was that he would be there longer than McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The injury was unlucky for sure, but the manager and the financial situation at the club were things he should be weighing up when making a decision about a move.
Probably a bit harsh given how quick the signing and sacking came after each other, but hard to argue there's nothing in what you say for sure
Judging players and managers on performance for the national team is absolutely fair game. Using a poor pass (Colbert Report) or a complex series of personal and professional issues (Livehead) for one player as justification to bash the league is absolutely not. Those were the two posters/comments that i took offence to. I also think the general contempt for the league and enjoyment of bashing the league is indicative of the prevailing thoughts of most of our support when we need to be supporting it and building it up into something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
There is also a potential human, mental health element to this that gets overlooked. Players like Byrne and Fahey thrived when playing out of Ireland and were clearly more comfortable doing so (arguably Stephen Kenny too, as a manager). They were also clearly good enough to be, at a minimum, on the periphery of the Ireland squad while they were playing at home. This perceived need for them to prove themselves in England (or "just anywhere but Ireland") probably forced them into a position where they were almost being set up to fail.
Take that last paragraph with a pinch of salt though, there is a whole bunch of speculation, assumptions and "what ifs" built into it but looking at how they struggled, then thrived, then struggled again... i personally feel there might be something in it.
There are as many balanced arguments on either side as completely nonsensical, hyperbolic and ignorant takes in this chain, going back a long way. Yours are in the former camp so I wasn't responding to you Eirambler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I don't think many who support the LoI would be claiming Kenny or Byrne as "exceptional" unless we are talking about purely LoI levels though and even that is debatable with Kenny as he struggled at Rovers although the situation wasn't great. There's a huge difference between, "listen this person has showed enough potential that they are worth a shot at a higher level" and "this is the messiah, bow down before them and prepare for World Cup glory". That gets lost a lot as those who just want to take a dump on the LoI find it easier to put up a straw man argument that LoI fans are claiming that the likes of Byrne or Kenny will completely change our fortunes single handedly.
There's no need to mention the league at all really. Byrne played for Ireland so we saw how he would look at our level first hand. We can all argue on whether he looked up to the level required but it was enough to get him included in multiple squads until covid and his injury took him down. I thought he played well on balance as did all the reports I read on those games. For me, Ireland looked more dangerous while he was on the field even with very limited strikers ahead of him but that's just my take. He was good against Bulgaria in both appearances and solid against New Zealand. Didn't have much time against Wales but it included both a good chance created for Collins and the poor pass that ended up with Hendrick's card. Maybe that's the end of the road for him. Time will tell.
erm, yes there is. A strong domestic league is important to our national side, or at least it should be. The point I made was as simple one, he has played in a number of leagues and has been poor in them, save for the LOI where he was the best player for two years in a row. That is an indictment on the league, the league is weak and that is why he stood out as a top player.
Making excuses for him, injury, change of manager only get you so far. He was poor before he was in the LOI and since leaving it, he's been poor. I note those avid followers of the domestic league are exceptionally quick to jump to its defence, but the facts are there for all to see.
I think in several of the lame and low key early performances in SK's tenure the team was crying out for an advanced playmaker and Byrne fitted the bill well. He was fit and on form and in my opinion should have played and we can have judged him then. I don't think we have the luxury of being able to decide what club level a player is playing at is good enough these days. Look at Horgan. Barely even got into in a Hibs team and then at struggling Wycombe, and he has subsequently been a creative and attacking breath of fresh air - simply because he's a talented footballer in a team full of relatively one dimensional players.
If a mistake or two was what determined a player's international career we'd have nobody to pick from. Of course any manager has the right to make a value call but back then I think not picking Byrne against, say, Bulgaria in his favoured role was a real missed opportunity. I think Kenny was too cautious wrt Cullen too, and too married to the idea that Hourihane is effective from deep.
Lets see what the next few years bring to the league with the age barrier on going to England being upped. This should provide a larger pool of talent to the league and it will be interesting to see how it is developed.
Whatever has been said, I like his character, i like the fact he’s prepared to travel and challenge himself, I like the fact he’s gone to the ‘pub league’ to reset himself, he’s only 25, he’s a very talented player, and plenty of time to recover from injuries/COVID. When he’s back playing regularly we can revisit whether he’s up to international standard.
Did anyone hear the rumour ( could and I hope is BS) that when jack signed for rovers he told Bradley he wasn't interested in tracking back for defence duties on the pitchQuote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
Maybe it was a Lazy Rumour !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I'd imagine there was a conversation along theses lines; "My last few moves have been a disaster, the managers who signed me never gave me a chance in my preferred position, they wanted me running around flying into tackles like a headless chicken for 90 mins. I'm taking a big risk coming back to Ireland, if I sign, I'd like to know if you're going to play me in my best position?". Which then becomes a rumour that he was a diva and said he'd no interest in tracking back or defending at all ever.
I watched Byrne a lot and if anything his work rate and ability to win the ball back was generally underestimated when he was fully fit. There's no doubt he struggled to get back to speed any time he was out injured and the back injury and covid really seem to have had a major toll on him. Fairly sure there was interviews around the time he had Covid detailing just how badly in effected him at the time.
also tbf to jack, the guy who told me this may not be 100& credible, my friend also claims he shagged Kate Winslet
A lot to like about JB as you say lofty. And the further point is that under normal circumstances he really should'nt be near the international set up but he is because of the dire lack of creativity in the team. Other than that the MLS is a very very good standard. If Jack can make it there he will have succeededQuote:
Originally Posted by lofty9
Is the MLS a "very very good standard"?
I'm not sure. It's a mix of retirement home and people barely making a living out of the game. They've had two Champions League finalists in 20 years - both lost. The Mexican League is much stronger.
In general I think MLS isn't the required level for a decent national squad. But right now, he's worth keeping an eye on.
He was happy tracking back for Rovers, i remember one particular occasion where he sprinted full tilt half the length of the pitch to tackle a forward breaking away from a cleared corner (which he took! ).Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Bradser commented on it as being typical of the way he was an all round team player.
The MLS is certainly not a “very, very good standard”.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
It will however suit Jack Byrne and with a bit of luck in terms of fitness I would expect he will do well out there.
Have to wish him all the best as lofty said there is a lot to like about him. He has travelled and continues to do so playing football, earned well in whilst doing so and will continue to as well in the USA.
It is a fantastic life for a young man surely and it’s certainly not his fault that Ireland were at such a low ebb and in such dire need of creativity that they had to go looking in the LOI. Similarly it won’t be Duffy’s if he gets called up. Byrne was the best player in the league at the time, fitted a position/area we badly needed someone for and has got to represent his country a few times.
He is doing rightly.
He wasn't poor in League 1 for Oldham (as you'd said earlier) and he wasn't poor in the 7th best league in Europe for Cambuur. Don't take my word for it though, it's all very easy to look into. If he hadn't shown that he could play at a higher level than LoI we wouldn't even be talking about him at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
The facts are indeed there but you're cherry picking the ones you need and outright twisting others to suit your narrative which is less about Jack Byrne and more about the LoI for whatever strange reason. As I've said, you don't need to mention the league at all. We are in a discussion about whether Jack has/had the potential to play for Ireland, a team with League 1 players in it currently, and we have more relevant evidence in the form of him actually playing games for Ireland. So give the league bashing a rest or maybe create your own thread for it? It's really dull.
Will beg to differ with you on the standard of MLS. There was a perception 10 years ago or so that it was sub standard, and that was perhaps justified. That does not apply today however. An awful lot of talent in the league. If Jack could establish a playmaker role in any MLS team he would be more than ready to step into the same position in a green shirtQuote:
Originally Posted by DCWA
Your mate or Jack Byrne?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Why can't their clubs make any impact at all on the Champions League so?Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLS_pe...ampions_League
I don't follow it but wouldn't the increase in teams getting to the quarters not indicate some degree of improvement stu? That as well as the improving results against teams from Mexico?
Where would you rank the Mexican league/MLS on a global scale? Or versus the English leagues as that's probably easier? League 1/2? I wouldn't have a clue.
My mateQuote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man
Well there's only 16 teams in it, so getting to the quarters just means winning one round.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
It's very hard to say where the leagues come in a global context because they don't really play against each other. A CONCACAF side has only once made the final of the World Club Cup (last year), but it's hard to know how much of a marker that is.
But I think if the MLS was "a very, very good league", it would be better than the Mexican league. And it's clearly not, by a long way. (That's not to say it's not improving, but I think it's a way off being "very very good")
The wage bill for the entire MLS - all 27 clubs - is around the same as Manchester United's. Half of all players each less than €3.5k per week - average League One salary is €5k per week. (I know I'm comparing median and average there, but it's illustrative)
I'm using the argument that salary equates to quality, which doesn't necessarily stack up, but I think studies generally show that there's a very good correlation.
(Also, which had me confused - my stat of two finalists in 20 years differs to that link, where it gives four, but I wasn't counting the Canadian teams, which I should have)
Wilfried Zahibo arrived to Dundalk this year as an MLS all-star. He's been a bit crap in the LOI after great success in MLS.
I can only therefore suggest LOI is far higher standard than MLS.
That throws our previous conclusion that the LOI is crap because Byrne is being told to bugger off by APOEL up into the air then so we are back to scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Would current Ireland squad win the MLS if we got them into the eastern championship as a franchise ? Could we move to CONCACAF and play in the Gold Cup? Would we win that?
So we have Apoel > Jack Byrne > Rovers > MLS = .......Jack is coming home?
He was an all-star in MLS three years ago, not last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I watch MLS week in and week out, and it is definitely not up to the English Championship standard, which I also watch weekly. I'd say L1/L2 standard with most teams having one or two players that are has beens cashing in on their name before they retire, and one or two young players, mostly from South America, who might make it in a big league in Europe down the line.
Jack Byrne wouldn't make it in MLS as the league is far too physical. Steven Gerrard got shock when he came over here and Robbie Keane was dropped for the last month of his career in LA because he just couldn't keep up to the pace anymore.
Robbie was a grandfather by that stage, after a long illustrious career with Galaxy, one that was even worthy of a statue in his honour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
Lucky man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Yeah I don't see why Robbie is thrown in there. He went over at 31 and smashed goals in there for 5 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Jack Byrne is entering his physical prime, physicality is no excuse for him. This all comes back to this cliche that a lot of Irish fans throw around, that any vaguely technical, average player we have should go "play on the continent as it suits their style more" which is utter nonsense. Like the only thing holding them back is playing in English football.
Gerrard was physically done by the time he arrived in LA at 35, Jack has no such excuse.
I dont believe him!Quote:
Originally Posted by the 12 th man