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Every time we swung in a ball they were like u10s. They couldn't deal with crosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
A few more in swingers would have killed them.
That's what post-Ireland game clarity is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Murf is practicing a realism I don't think he can honestly believe in.
Agree with Elroy, but we're probably more 'likely' to win in Austria than at home to the Swedes.
I can see another two draws, even now.
Who knows how they'll play v.each other. Obviously two draws are preferable...
But can also see our group having the 'worst' 2nd. place and automatic elimination for whoever, regardless.
Well, regardless if second doesn't get us into the play-offs I still want to finish second.
We lost 5-2 in Cyprus under Stan, we nearly came unstuck in San Marino of all teams, we lost to the Czechs in Prague Under Trap weve drawn too many but the teams we've lost to (h France, h Germany, h Russia) have all been top tier. I think Trap has been significantly better than Stan and also Kerr. I'd like us to be playing better football and converting the draws into wins but I don't think there is any point in getting rid of Trap where there are ZERO credible better alternatives who would take the job. A lot of people have said "Trap out" but who could we get in?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You would have to think that given Sweden's recent results , their performance against us was below what they normally produce. Looking at how brutal Austria were tonight in the first half, especially regarding set pieces, I'd expect Sweden to beat them twice.
Tonight was a must win. We are now out barring a miracle.
Agree with most of what I'm reading here. Trap blew it and when you ride your luck for four years you're bound to get slapped eventually. Fully deserved. We needed more leadership. When James McClean is the one screaming at players to step out then it's obvious there's an issue.
Players blew it through a lack of composure and management blew ultimately for once again fostering a system which allowed the opposition back in.
My only decision issue was leaving Sammon on for 90. Thought he was well out of his depth but, regardless, he was off his feet after 65. Pressing from the front was clearly Trap's thinking but one of our striker's was puffed. Ridiculous.
Interesting to hear Brady at HT warn that we must not "back off" in the second half and protect the lead.
Few interesting bits in the RTE post-match coverage. Tony O'Donoghue stated that Shane Long told the press that he wasn't tired. This wasn't expressed during his interview following the man of the match awarding so I'm assuming it was communicated by Long when pressed by a journo somewhere in the mix.
It can't possibly be that Long is less fit that Conor Sammon who worked admirably and got on plenty headers and knock-ons but his touch was constantly laboured and didn't improve with fatigue. Furthermore, where is the logic in replacing Long up front with Walters who had run his heart out and, in effect, played in two positions or more? So there was two players who should have made way if Trap did want to bring in Green. Why he wanted to bring in Green is beyond me anyway. Even if his goal-scoring form has been mitigated, that game was tailor-made for someone with the industry and application of Kevin Doyle, although that wasn't going to happen either.
Liam Brady put in quite an exhibition in studio. He deemed our players completely inferior to the Austrians (I didn't see it) and showed his displeasure with O'Donoghue, with Billo taking umbrage with this immediately. I hadn't agreed with the aggressive and vindictive line of interviewing O'Donoghue had been taking of late but, from my own perspective as a fan, Tony was indeed posing the questions that the public did want answers to.
At some stage between now and november, the decision will be made to look for a replacement. It's an inevitability. Trap should anyway step down when it's mathematically impossible to qualify. Who will replace him is another question, but it will be the only question, not the question of wondering if there's anybody better than what we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Brady shouldn't be near the RTÉ studio whilst Trap is in charge. It's maddening.
Long seemed to get knocked over and didn't get a free, and then immediately raced back and barged into what I think was the same player who had (possibly) fouled him. He did it cynically and right in front of the referee. There may have been a worry that he had lost his head.
Putting Green on for him was fine, but Green needed to be in the middle, where Abara wound up for his shot at goal.
You are allowed to run with the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by brine3
i'm over the initial disappointment of the late leveller and now i'm just depressed.
the idea of going to work in the morning is galling. why do i do this to myself! euro 2016 qualifiers seem a long long way off...
Liam Brady comes across as aggressive and willfully, thick-headedly stubborn on those panels - of course, Dunphy's sensationalism winds him up but the thought Brady might be in line to take over from Trap is not a pleasant one for me.
Coco the f***ing Clown.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Tony Robinson so his time team can carbon date Trap's tactics.
Abraham Maslow - I know he's dead, but he's still one hell of a motivator.
Basically anybody, with or without a pulse, is an improvement. Somebody who has the ability to recognise that players like Hoolahan and Brady may not be world beaters, but they're a step up from the kind of knuckle-dragging anti-football that Trap has us playing. Somebody who won't s**t on the bit of footballing tradition we have: who knows that for every Glen Whelan, we've had a Chippy or a Giles; for every Sammon, a Stapleton or a Quinn - and that that means something to us.
Ciao, Gio. Arrivederci. Time to go - a piu non posso.
We're only half way through this campaign and then some summer 2014 friendlies to play before then. Probably against inferior teams who made it to Brazil.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
I'll never forget that sickening feeling beating Paraguay and Algeria in the RDS and thinking the whole time, "What if...?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
When he's angry. You certainly feel it. With you 100%.
Trap has to go. I don't understand how anybody can promote him staying on with us. As predicted by pretty much every person around me, we sat back and let Austria get the goal. We deserved that donkey kick in the teeth. They were there for the taking.trap takes off long who had a very good game and leaves on sammon who was absolutely knackered after 60 minutes. He baffled me by not starting wes hoolahan, but him not bringing him on in the 2nd half was a disgrace. Surely, you should get players on the pitch who can keep possession and you certainly shouldn't take off the striker who has good energy and ball control.
As I left the stadium, I had some comfort from the fact that we have a batch of young lads there who are going to be very good players for us. In the case of Coleman and McCarthy, they can go to the very top in my opinion. Both those two and Wilson should be seasoned internationals by now. Anyhow, we have a good team in the making there and with the right manager, we can have far more good days than bad in the future.
I'm going to bed now. I look forward to that empty feeling in the morning.
I last had it hmmmmmm, about 930am on 19 November 2010.
At least there's no hangover this time.
totally sickened. Side note - cannot understand people leaving at 90 mins when a qualifier is at 2-1!! Why were they there?
Anyway, for me what lost it was not Conor sammon or subbing green for long. It was to instruct Walters to go up front and keep 4-4-2 shape with 5 mins to go when you have already conceded possession in the game. Just makes no sense at all. When I saw green being ready I thought, at last an extra body in there, if you're not going to take them on playing then at least flood midfield!!
However playing sammon for the 90 was just pure stubbornness. I heard one "fan" remark on leaving, "baldy headed ****". So unfair on the lad really, he did ok first half but his game was over after 50 mins.
Yeah but as usual when you are like this, there is no way in hell you will be able to figure out what happened to your pants.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...57749159_n.jpg
Heaven knows they're miserable now.
At least he stayed til the end!
Ugghh that sickening disappointed feeling that comes with the course of been an Ireland fan, and my hopes werent even that high coming into these two games. Ah well here we go again............time will pass by, we will beat the Faroes and suddenly the optimism will kick in again weeks ahead of the Sweden game. That could be a great night for us.........................
Or just plain deluded...
Oh and one more thing, anyone else think Robbie wouldve made a difference tonight. I think he would. There were a few times where we didnt make the best of our attacks or the striker was ahead of the play etc. The goal poaching instincts of Keano may well have got the third we did need in the end.
Yip. He defo would.
Would be nice not to have to rely on him you know, for once though.
Couldn't have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eminence Grise
Let's get these mixed feelings out of our minds about Trap. If there is a bit of sentiment out there for the Italian still, then just remind yourself that McCarthy would not have played in Stockholm had Whelan been fit. There's a thought. Look what Wheland did tonight against Austria. He is a pathetic footballer, no ifs or buts. Sammon was a joke. Hoolahan was the choice - we would have beaten them with him in the team, or even Robbie Brady. How can so many people see it and the manager not?
I lost respect for Trap when he didn't follow on after Paris and have the team play the way they were capable. And then he publicly promised to change tactics after the Euros. But it has been and always be the same old drivel under this manager. Ok we are a limited team but we have two or three who can play and bring the best out in the others, but they're just swept under the carpet by a now clueless manager
Only for him, there would be no balance on the panel, which would be a fault in the coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
We have the same points after the weekend as the other contenders, and it took a 30-yard deflected effort 65 seconds from time to rob us of an important win. It could be better, but it's certainly not over.
Sickening result. Saw the Austrian equaliser coming a mile off. My heart was racing for the last ten minutes; my head begging Trap to do something to relieve the pressure. Putting Green on the right wing was just bizarre. Long played a blinder. Walters and McClean also did well and it was pleasing to see us stage such an impressive comeback by half-time after the shaky start. If we'd continued in that mould, rather than regressing to the negative tactics and inviting on an ultimately insurmountable amount of pressure, we'd be celebrating three points, but we threw it away, as is so typical. Nobody to blame but ourselves, or Trap, to be more precise. Indefensible mismanagement. He made it very clear himself before the game that anything less than three points from this wasn't good enough. Fair play to the Austrians; they kept plugging away, took advantage of our neanderthal tactics and fully deserved their equaliser.
C'mon, don't kid yourself. Sweden have a game in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
They all count. And that one has cost us very dearly. No way in hell you can claim we were robbed.Quote:
and it took a 30-yard deflected effort 65 seconds from time to rob us of an important win.
Barring a miracle. Are you genuinely optimistic?...Quote:
It could be better, but it's certainly not over.
Last Night I Dreamt That We Drew with AustriaQuote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Ireland Started Something They Couldn't Finish
Pessimism Begins at Home
The Group Is Dead
Please, Please, Please, Let Me Get a Win in Vienna
Defender in a Coma
There Is a Manager That Never Goes for Broke
etc.
Coleman, Wilson, Long, McClean and McCarthy have definitely improved the team. The problem being they should have been in the side and regulars well before now. My point being that Hoolahan should also be in the side and would improve the team further again. Possibly enough to actually beat sides like Sweden and Austria. Plus we have a Pilkington to come into the side. Another player who will improve the team. Forde is the real deal (hopefully improves his kicking), The chances of either Sweden or Austria beating us later this year is close to zero. Just another slight improvement in the team should be enough to get at least 4 points from the two games. Anything is still possible if we keep improving and I like the look of this current crop of players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Looks like we finally plucked up the courage to go for broke in the last minute.
Better late than never.
Staggering, isn't it? I don't know if he'll be reporting on tonight's game tomorrow, but I can only look forward a 16-paragraph evisceration of the Austrian school of economics followed by 5 sentences lamenting Trap's failure to pick Wes Hoolahan. Riveting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I noticed the same thing. Ronnie Whelan in commentary savaged Keogh for not sticking out on his wing to receive the pass, where he presumably would have demonstrated his world-class ability to cross the ball into a box empty of all team mates. He made the right run but didn't receive the required quality of pass. Still, I think if Hoolahan had been on ten minutes earlier, he'd have nailed the pass and Keogh would have scored the important goal I've been tipping him to score for 2 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I've seen a few posts like this and am just focusing on this one. He needed to take Long AND Sammon off, both of whom had run themselves into the ground. Green had to come on, but Doyle or Hoolahan on for Sammon, with five across midfield, would have shored up midfield for us. A better manager would have made the changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Who cares if Long says he wasn't tired? He clearly was. Besides, Trap was using "tired" as a euphamism, the same way Dunphy was "tired and emotional" when he couldn't appear in the studio during the '02 World Cup. Long was on a yellow card with 20 minutes to go and was kicking people. Trap made the mistake of not taking off Doyle in a similar situation vs Armenia a year or so back. He wasn't going to make it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
On Trap, like most everybody else I'll be delighted when he's gone, but in spite of all the negatives I think we saw the benefits of his reign tonight. The first 45 minutes were flawless, Clark's error aside. We bossed a technically superior side and should have been more goals in front. Even in the second half, we started well and only through lack of experience did we cede the initiative. I don't think this team would have done the same with 3-4 more matches under their belts, and Trap needs to take responsibility for introducing these players too late. Still, we are more or less rock solid defensively and are finally starting to show the ability to play possession football, but it is probably 2 years too late because almost all of these players have been around that long.
So, Trap out, but kudos for making us a solid team.
On the subject of Sammon... I've watched this boy since he was playing schoolboy with Cherry Orchard and I've always thought he was muck. He was getting into Irish underage squads with literally dozens of more talented players left in his wake. Yet not one of those players has ever played at close to the standard he has. Tonight, I can see exactly why Trap selected him. We've endured 6 years of Kevin Doyle as a target man, flicking the ball on hopelessly to ABSOLUTELY NOBODY, and getting hailed as a hero for his efforts. Tonight we finally saw what happens when you have a tactically aware target man on the field - his flick-ons actually find a man, and that's entirely because Sammon plays with his head up and his brain switched on. He was clearly very nervous in possession, but his tactical play was superb and he sweat blood for the team.
You can criticise his raw ability all you want, but we wouldn't have done half the things we did well without him.
What puzzles me is that when the goal is scored McCarthy is further up the pitch than Walters, there is only
Sammon further up the pitch then him. It's like we are playing 4-3-3 or even 4-3-2-1 the famous Christmas tree formation.
Look here 2.33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85651lAgJa0
Sammon is in the centre circle.
McCarthy is right next to the player who heads the ball.
Walters is doing a 'scarecrow'.
at 2.34
Whelan was marking the goal scorer but leaves him to cover the player Green is marking,
We just seem so disorganised at this point many are not clear who they should be marking.
It's all pretty dreadful, McCarhy seems to be well out of position and we do what we always seem
to do, run towards the nearest player with the ball en mass.
Of course this leaves several players unmarked and it is doddle for that player to pass to one of the unmarked players,
which he will due do, and then we all run towards that player leaving further players unmarked.
This is pointless it means we end up knackered because we are running twice as far and they are..
The solution is simple, just one player runs towards him, then he has a big problem, he has nobody to pass to duh!!!!
I mean you can say what if the player marked by just one man gets beat?
Well tough, as long as nobody dives in then it's hard for them to be beat and left for dead, you just stand slightly off him
then it's very hard for him to get past you and he will probably lose the ball trying more often than not.
OK you can still get beat playing like this but you have a fighting chance as you are not having to run twice as far as the
opposition!!
There is some awful drivel in this thread at this stage...
The fact there are more negatives than positives currently...
:rolleyes:
Sweden also have to to go to Astana, Vienna, and here, and get results. We know what they're like, and I can't see them getting 9/9 somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I have and I will. We'll know in October what it cost us. Germany let slip a 4 goal lead in this campaign in injury time. Hasn't hurt them too much though.Quote:
They all count. And that one has cost us very dearly. No way in hell you can claim we were robbed.
We have the same points as the playoff spot, with half the campaign to go. We don't need miracles, we just have to finish a point ahead of them with half of our remaining home games against the minnows.Quote:
Barring a miracle. Are you genuinely optimistic?...
So if we are as good as the above, why change?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Watched the match last night - no mention by the commentators during or after the match about Wilson's constant poor decisions - then again, he's been "wronged".
TOD's interview afterwards was guided by the idiots in RTE, it made a mockery of reporting.
Dunphy is a disgrace. Laughing Bill is beyond caricature.
I was devastated with the equaliser, though despite the balance from Giles and Brady, RTE were a disgrace. Dunphy "speaking" for the public - sorry, you're not. maybe for the pub bore and idiot whose larda@s hasn't seen a LOI ground but is guided by the idiots in the meeja. Sick to the teeth of this crap. Bad enough Ken Early infests the Irish Times, it's embarrassing to be Irish. And not because of our manager, or players.