Under-19 Squad

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Originally Posted by Exgrad

I wouldn't read anything more into the Chelsea and Serie A connections that an agent trying to raise his profile as he joins Celtic. He'll have see how other Irish players sank without trace there.

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It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

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van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

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Celtic make a great job of those two. Obviously Van Dijk came already fairly well developed from Holland, I assume.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Celtic make a great job of those two. Obviously Van Dijk came already fairly well developed from Holland, I assume.

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Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots

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Who is Dembele with now ? I get a bit confused with the Dembeles. That seems to be a common name.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

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Most of the best players (he mentions Cathal Heffernan,Adam Murphy and I don’t remember the other name) are on professional deals so would get good level of training or atleast adequate level of training until they turn 18. Didn’t do much harm to Andrew Moran or Sinclair Armstrong so far atleast.

People talk about facilities and all that but what’s more important over everything is more time on a football field, there needs to be a way financially to get these kids more training time to try challenge them and especially the ones in limbo, the ones who may not be ready for a professional deal but may need extra training to get to the level required.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

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Van Dijk was developed in Holland, both his Dutch club and Southampton have about as much if not more claim to his success than Celtic.

Every clock is right twice a day, just because one player bucked the trend isn’t going to change the fact that Celtic are dreadful at bringing through youth.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

It’s got Agent Hype written all over it. If these players were good enough they would almost certainly be going somewhere better than Celtic. Ok, the odd one should come through but the reality is most of them are probably not good enough to be at a better place than Celtic. The Idea that Football / Any Football Clubs are letting Great Talent slip through their fingers is bordering on laughable. When you see how much that rare diamond is worth then that makes no sense.

If Celtic wee that terrible then the odd fella that left Celtic would go on to be World beaters = = How often has that happened. Actually Celtic are probably gambling on getting the Odd Shock through. Some of the English Premiership clubs are paying eye watering wages to some young fellas and ironically enough that is possibly why they don’t make it = Too much too soon.

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Considering his agent also advised him to go to Watford in the first place would tell me his agent isn’t very good and would tell he has been badly advised on this occasion.

Just been confirmed of signing for Celtic, and boy he has ****ed up so badly, playing in the 5th division of Scottish football is really going to improve him as a player.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Van Dijk was developed in Holland, both his Dutch club and Southampton have about as much if not more claim to his success than Celtic.

Every clock is right twice a day, just because one player bucked the trend isn’t going to change the fact that Celtic are dreadful at bringing through youth.

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Though not one running 5 minutes slow

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

van Dijk and Tierney? Tierney's not world class, but he's playing at a higher level than most Irish players.

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I'd dispute Tierney not being world class, to be fair. I know he hasn't played Champions League knockouts but can't imagine it'll be long until he is.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Dembele also was brilliant as a young player there. There has been lots

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There's no problem with Celtic, or any other Scottish premiership side, as long as players are getting first team football (in the SPL not in the Lowland League). The problem is that Celtic sign so many young players but give so few a genuine shot at first team football compared to English teams of a similar standard (by that I mean upper end Championship teams for the most part).

I've said it before but, if a player wants to maximise his chances at Celtic, he should only go there if they've paid a few million for him. Because then he'll be given a chance if he's any good at all because they'll want to justify the outlay. These young lads that they pick up for around £100k are just free hits for them, maybe one in 10 will make the grade and they'll sell on for millions. What happens to the other nine in the end is their own problem.

Celtic have already made a profit from the Connell, Afolabi, O'Connor and Frimpong signings by selling on Frimpong. If the other three never kick a ball and sit out their contracts it will still have been worthwhile and profitable for Celtic.

Despite the spin I can only assume Lawal has gone there because he has either been badly advised or, quite simply, nobody else offered a multi year deal.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

There's no problem with Celtic, or any other Scottish premiership side, as long as players are getting first team football (in the SPL not in the Lowland League). The problem is that Celtic sign so many young players but give so few a genuine shot at first team football compared to English teams of a similar standard (by that I mean upper end Championship teams for the most part).

I've said it before but, if a player wants to maximise his chances at Celtic, he should only go there if they've paid a few million for him. Because then he'll be given a chance if he's any good at all because they'll want to justify the outlay. These young lads that they pick up for around £100k are just free hits for them, maybe one in 10 will make the grade and they'll sell on for millions. What happens to the other nine in the end is their own problem.

Celtic have already made a profit from the Connell, Afolabi, O'Connor and Frimpong signings by selling on Frimpong. If the other three never kick a ball and sit out their contracts it will still have been worthwhile and profitable for Celtic.

Despite the spin I can only assume Lawal has gone there because he has either been badly advised or, quite simply, nobody else offered a multi year deal.

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There is a problem at Celtic when they develop as many internationals as the likes of Dundee United, Inverness, Hibernian etc when they want to consider themselves a “big club”.

Considering Lawal was advised to go to Watford on the first place would indicate to me that he’s been badly advised. I saw a picture recently of Ryan Cassidy, Darragh Burns & Dawson Devoy who all went on trial at Watford, one signed and the other 2 stayed in Ireland, it’s striking how well Dawson Devoy and Darragh Burns look playing mens football at their age yet Cassidy on loan at Accrington Stanly lions totally out of his depth playing men’s football. Probably indicates in itself why Watford was probably not a wise move for Lawal and because of that it doesn’t really surprise me that he’s been badly advised about going to Celtic.

How do you know how well Burns and Devoy would have fared on loan to Accrington Stanley after a while with Watford's underage teams?

None of that is comparable.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

How do you know how well Burns and Devoy would have fared on loan to Accrington Stanley after a while with Watford's underage teams?

None of that is comparable.

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Probably not much better because it would have been the same mistake made.

CSAD Will you ever give it a rest about Celtic. Painful to read such whinging.

Celtics first interest is not in 'bringing through' players. Either for Ireland of anyone else. Its winning trophies. They sign a lot of players, both youth and cheapish younger pros with first team experience elsewhere. In the hope that some of them will be a 'hit'. Coaching and development panel league structure aside, its then mostly up to the players themselves to become that 'hit'. In over 20 years of closely following Celtic they have always had some 'youth' either getting a run in the first team or making the bench. The majority of these players that got a chance turned out to be not good enough in the end. That's football though. You have 10 kids all trying but only 1 of them will make it in the game. Off the top of my head I've seen Celtic play the likes of youth players Jamie Smith and Ross Wallace in massive European games. Darren O Dea played against Milan in the San Siro and got more than a fair crack of the whip at Parkhead. The foot.ie hero Cillian Sheridan played and scored for the first team. Aiden Mcgeady was good enough to get his chance at 16 or 17. Tony Watt scored the winner vs Barca. Mikey Johnston has had plenty of opportunity in recent seasons, getting the nod over established players at Ibrox etc etc etc etc. I could go on and on. Basically if a young player is better than his peers at Celtic, he has a decent shot at first team action. That many of those I listed as examples went on to have medicare careers tells you a story about the competitiveness of football at the highest level.

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Just listened to Ger O'Brien who is head of the academy at St Pats being interviewed on the latest LOI Central Podcast. Well worth a listen to. He talks about the changes needed in Ireland due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18.

I dont think the general public realize the impact that is going to have on player development in the coming years. He makes the point that the likes of Connolly, Parrott, Idah, Knight, Bazunu would all have not being able to join English clubs until after 18 and how we were already struggling to do well at international level. Without major investment in coaches its going to be a disaster on the horizon.

I know most of us here were probably aware of it but he speaks very well

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"due to players not being able to go over to England until they are 18"

What do u mean? I didnt here this. Are u saying only adults can sign for uk clubs?

Diggs, there isn't any txt spk in RLP's post. What point are you trying to make?

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

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Maybe their players are not good enough to go anywhere else. Why would other clubs or the clubs good at bringing players through be letting these super-stars slip through their fingers. Why would football in general be letting potentially very valuable players slip through its fingers = = It makes not a jot of sense.

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

He’s calm and silky and reads the game well. Comfortable under pressure, good first touch, put simply, he’s a footballer. Mistakes will happen as he moves up the levels given the position he’s in but he’s got the temperament to deal with it I think.

He’s comfortable in the air as you’d expect but he’s not McGuinness. Something that could well improve over time as he gets more comfortable with his body.

He’s not crazy quick but he’s not slow to the point you’d worry about it being a problem.

Met him and his mam once, seemed like lovely people

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I think it was McNulty who made a really really bad mistake for the 17s in the Euros a couple of years ago, loose back pass or intercepted pass across to his cb partner, one of a few in the same game. Remember thinking at the time, this is the level for it to happen to him, because it won't happen again. And sure enough next game, he was tops.

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.

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It's all opinions, but I think I saw Coffey play in the flesh at underage level twice, and a few times on the telly, and not once did I ever think he was going to be a player who would have a future senior career at International level.

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

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I agree with 3/420 completely, and god knows, we don't agree on much!

And to defend CSAD a touch, reading his recent posts, it seems to me that he isn't so much criticising Celtic (or caring about what Celtic do) as much as displaying concern for promising Irish kids who go there bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Only difference between them and Connell is his first-team experience, that's what hurts him particularly.

Eirambler makes the point about Celtic covering the outlay on 3 players by the money brought in by Frimpong - that's exactly it. It's a business model as seen by Liverpool and countless other clubs. Dare I say it, it's a similar model to what the big schoolboy clubs have. Take the brightest, biggest and best, and one of them is bound to do well, get a transfer and keep the show on the road.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Diggs, there isn't any txt spk in RLP's post. What point are you trying to make?

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Is he saying that lads cant go to the uk until they are 18? or have I miss read it?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Is he saying that lads cant go to the uk until they are 18? or have I miss read it?

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Yes, and it's correct. Due to Brexit, EU players can't move to the UK for football reasons until they are 18. Evan Ferguson was able to move at 16, but it's because his mother has a UK passport.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Yes, and it's correct. Due to Brexit, EU players can't move to the UK for football reasons until they are 18. Evan Ferguson was able to move at 16, but it's because his mother has a UK passport.

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OMG, that's is a disaster.

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Even taking just Celtic's handling of Luca Connell in isolation, the club have inarguably mismanaged the career prospects of a talented young player enormously. He was playing regularly, and excelling, in the the Championship (obviously a far greater standard than Scotland) and since his ill-advised move to Celtic his career has been set back to an almost incredible degree.

Celtic and Rangers left the reserve league in 2019, meaning their youngsters play only meaningless friendlies in empty, God-forsaken, windswept fields around Scotland.

Any agent who suggests a talented young player make the move to Scotland is guilty of terrible incompetence at best, and simple self-interested and inscrupulous greed at worst.

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Connell played 10 games for Bolton at the tail end of the season and they lost 9 of them. They were in free fall so hard to judge how good or bad a player is in that circumstance. Often young lads get credit for trying hard and their quality can be overlooked in these situations. Him and his agent probably couldn't believe there luck when he got offered a 4 year deal!

One thing that alarms me about Connell is if he was promising why didn't get a loan move to a better club at a higher level? E.g League 1 / league 2 scottish championship etc. Thats 60 / 70 clubs that are constantly monitoring for good value loans deals etc Anyway if he can't get himself a better loan move this season that's a red flag, assuming he doesn't get a look in at Celtic.

I do agree that the Celtic youth structure / transfers are in a mess (Agree re reserve league) but I look at it that the mess is in their own talent identification - they seem to be very poor at it and this has benefited the likes of O'Connor, Coffey, Afolabi by them getting good long term deals that they may not have got anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

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Does anyone have any knowledge in this field that can advise?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

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Doesn't apply, FIFA's rules supersede it.
https://www.the42.ie/irish-football-...07749-Dec2020/

A 16 year old could move to the UK if one of their parents got a job there unrelated to football, but then you'd have to prove that the player joining a club was not related to the move, which doesn't seem like something few, if any, clubs would be interested in doing

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

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The Eu is the Super-State / Empire now.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Does anyone have any knowledge in this field that can advise?

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I think our young lads already heading to France and Italy in recent months, largely for the first time, with others linked to clubs in different countries is advice enough.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Yes, and it's correct. Due to Brexit, EU players can't move to the UK for football reasons until they are 18. Evan Ferguson was able to move at 16, but it's because his mother has a UK passport.

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ours to lose.

There's definitely an infrastructure problem when it comes to Celtic which is leading young players into a career trap if they go there - at a point when they need to be playing regularly at a high level, they have not been playing much competitive football at all and now in the Lowland league will be playing against players ranked about 900th best to 1500th best in Scotland (assuming 20 players to a squad in the leagues above them and a number of players in England). If they stay in an academy in England, at least they will be testing themselves against some of the best young players in the world. Even if they come back to LoI and we assume there's about 100 Irish pros in England at a higher level, they will be testing themselves competitively against players ranked 100th best to 300th best in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Doesn't apply, FIFA's rules supersede it.
https://www.the42.ie/irish-football-...07749-Dec2020/

A 16 year old could move to the UK if one of their parents got a job there unrelated to football, but then you'd have to prove that the player joining a club was not related to the move, which doesn't seem like something few, if any, clubs would be interested in doing

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This is total disaster. There is no point pretending the FAI will be pushed into action and before we know it, we have a league like they do in Belgium or the like. We are serous hot water here.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Do we not have an agreement with teh brits "common travel area" that's supersedes EU regulations

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It supercedes EU regulations but not FIFA regulations. FIFA's rules are that nobody can move before they're 18, but they have to make an exception for the EU due to freedom of movement for labour, but that no longer applies to the UK.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It supercedes EU regulations but not FIFA regulations. FIFA's rules are that nobody can move before they're 18, but they have to make an exception for the EU due to freedom of movement for labour, but that no longer applies to the UK.

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But didn't Messi go from Argentina to Barca as a kid?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

But didn't Messi go from Argentina to Barca as a kid?

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Pretty sure Messi holds a Spanish passport. Also the reason why he doesn’t count as a non EU player for Barcelona.

Well he got that in 2005. He moved to Spain in 2000. Maybe the rules were different then.